Shinobi Life Online

Shinobi Life Online Category => Shinobi Life Online Suggestions => Topic started by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 17:08:09

Title: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 17:08:09
this is going to be hard to stay on topic but please try!!
So sence the inception of this game the idea is that you can learn anything you want. Any skill Any jutsu, Any religuse abuilitys, ext, and it's one of the many things that sets SLO apart from other MMOARPG games. However it has also bin stated that to accomplish this you must play for a Realy long time. I think That for the players that want to attempt this, they should have every right. I'm guessing though that some players may want to specialize in certain skills as well. I think this needs to be accomplished in the tree skills of the 5 Majer skill trees.
From what I can tell no ninja in naruto ever mastered more then 2 Majer skills
Examples-
Itachi- master of genjutsu and ninjutsu
Jiraiya- Taijustu and ninjutsu
Zabuza- kenjutsu and ninjutsu
Neji- sensory jutsu and Taijustu
Keba- same
You get the idea.

So for the players that want to master everything, I suggest that they must
1. Train in tear 1 in all trees before moving to tear 2 and so on up the trees.( this will be a long process)
2. Only be able to master 1 skill.
3. Find items hidden around the world that allow them to learn the remaining 4 master level skills

For the players that want to specialize in 2 skills
They must
1. Evenly train in both skills-tear 1 before training in tear 2
2. After tear 2 you can train other skils tear 1-(whatever half way is- if there's 10 tears )5
3. After reaching tear 10 in each skill tree
The same 4 items will push you past the master level of your 2 skills- 2 items needed for each
This is were things like
(Naruto examples not In game)
sage mode- ninjutsu
Tsukuyomi- genjutsu
8 inner gates - Taijustu
Byakugan- sensory
Creation Rebirth- medical
Bukijutsu- use of all weapons including legendary ones.(Think Tenten)

And so its all in how you train your skill trees.
As you will likely get your first teer in the academy, you would need to start this from the very  beginning of the game.

The next thing is separating skills from jutsu
JUTSU HAVE NO PLACE IN SKILL TREES
What do I meen by this?...
Under the Ninjutsu tree
The first thing you learn is chakra control.
(Chakra is necessary to perform all ninjutsu)
But what other skills are needed to perform say
The chidori in game now.
1.Change in Form level 3 or higher maybe?
2. Change in nature level 1 or 2 ( depending on if it's your primary nature)?
3. Chakra control level 5 or higher? Basic won't work will it?
And that's Just to start.
4. How about activation control- the first time naruto used the Rasenshuriken In battle why did it fail? Because naruto could not keep it active for long enough. This was not because he ran out of chakra.. He was just not skilled enough yet with the jutsu to keep it active. Should this be in the tree skill or should it be built in to the jutsu???This is why it's going to be hard to stay on topic with just the tree skills.

 So what skills do we give to each major skill tree??

Ninjutsu and genjutsu both require chakra
Which one gets chakra console??
Or do they all get chakra control??
Or dose chakra control unlock all 5 trees.




Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Sanji on June 14, 2016, 17:31:43
i just red the first half and i am tired lol.
btw who is Juria?
do you mean Jiraiya?lol you should fix it.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 17:34:45
Fixed thanks!!!
You meant tired right??? Not third!!
You should finish it is long but I think it's important to spell out the difference between skills and jutsu's and were they belong in game.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Whatasnipe on June 14, 2016, 17:49:08
Maybe a Chakra Control tree governs all Ninjutsu? For example like you said Chidori takes alot of chakra control. Maybe you have the Ninjutsu skill to use chidori, but you can't use it until your Chakra control is sufficient enough, using both trees at once. Maybe your Chidori is unstable or ineffective without the required chakra control level. Just some ideas
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 18:22:25
Ok here is how I see the trees looking-kind of I'll make a better one soon. But I think everything should open up with chakra control
chakra control

Unlocks

Ninjutsu Genjutsu Taijustu Sensory Bukijutsu

Then under each of them you have other skills  necessary for use of spacifc jutsu so in Ninjutsu there could be a few branches


ninjutsu
Combat skills                Medical skills
Jutsu activation             First aid
Change in form.             Basic Anatomy
1st nature.                   Advanced anatomy
Chakra power         Advanced chakra control
2nd nature.                      Biochemistry
And so on .....until you unlock
Sence nature energy.      Chakra storage

But I think sensory should be classifieds as support skill tree

So chidori would require everything up to chakra power if lightning was your 1st nature and posable speed up from the Taijustu tree seeing as how it's a jab requiring speed.

So basic jutsu should only require 1-2
skills
Novice 3-4
Intermediate 5-6
Expert 7-8
Master 9-10.

The jutsu scroll will list the required skills in them... So obtain a jutsu scroll is useless Inless you have the skills to learn it.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 14, 2016, 18:53:44
Personally, I do not think it should ever be possible to master 5 skills. 2 skills per person makes teamwork an important factor and if anyone person can reach 5, everyone will aim for 5.

Besides that, I like your ideas, they are well thought out but would require each jutsu to have a set of additional requirements. Vreg would also have to implement how these skills increase over time, certain jutsu, actions and even clothing might improve certain skills over time. As well as the rate of said increase.

Tbh I'll just @Vreg
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 14, 2016, 18:54:23

JUTSU HAVE NO PLACE IN SKILL TREES


I agree. I think learning jutsu's through scrolls / others is a good way. Though, I'm open for a skill tree item being a pre-requisite for a jutsu of sorts.

Mastery, however, is another story. (continuing on @Manuster 's post about mastery:)

About the chidori control...
No technique is mastered without practice. Your chance of successfully and efficiently performing a technique should be determined by a number of things:

I. Chakra control and number of successive uses should determine the success of efficiency (read: how much you lose chakra whether successful or unsuccessful)(of course not being successful = bigger chakra loss).
II. Intelligence and number of successive uses should determine the success rate of the jutsu (read: Mastery).

Again, that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 19:10:56
@Manuster @DarthTyrael I see what your saying but I was thinking of a skill point cap that could be implemented  you can Master all the skills in the game and use all the jutsu. In the game but only at bass level if you focus on only 2 trees
You can put more then double the points in each. This would obviously meen you are more skilled in this then some one that knows everything. There for it could as much as double the power of the jutsu someone that only has one point in it would have.
Also there was talk of a Jutsu count that keeps  track of how much you use that jutsu. This could be applied As a persentige of   Efficiency with that Justu. I.E. You used the jutsu 50 times so it only works half the time. 50%
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 14, 2016, 19:22:05
I see what you mean, let me continue on your thought process.

For example: Ninjutsu Tree

One sub-tree can excel in increased efficiency while another can excel in increased casting speed and/or cooldown decrease.

Elemental specific Tree:

Fire: Lasting Burn (0/3)
Applies Lasting Burn effect on all flame based jutsus, burning your enemies for 5 (*Nin power %) fire damage over (5/10/15) seconds.
Water: Heavy Water (0/3)
Applies Heavy Water effect on jutsu's with Bind effect (for example water prison) or large scale water jutsu's (large tidal wave), causing 8(* Nin power %) over (3/6/9) seconds
Lightning: Lasting Sting (0/3)
Applies Lasting Sting on all lightning based jutsus, inflicting 5(*Nin power %) lightning damage over (5/10/15) seconds.

Let me know what your thoughts are.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 19:33:03
I see what you mean, let me continue on your thought process.

For example: Ninjutsu Tree

One sub-tree can excel in increased efficiency while another can excel in increased casting speed and/or cooldown decrease.

Elemental specific Tree:

Fire: Lasting Burn (0/3)
Applies Lasting Burn effect on all flame based jutsus, burning your enemies for 5 (*Nin power %) fire damage over (5/10/15) seconds.
Water: Heavy Water (0/3)
Applies Heavy Water effect on jutsu's with Bind effect (for example water prison) or large scale water jutsu's (large tidal wave), causing 8(* Nin power %) over (3/6/9) seconds
Lightning: Lasting Sting (0/3)
Applies Lasting Sting on all lightning based jutsus, inflicting 5(*Nin power %) lightning damage over (5/10/15) seconds.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

If this was implemented under the first change in nature skill that would be amazing... To have this kind of control over the distribution of points in that one  tear is  unprecedented for any mmorpg.

And remember jutsu have there own effects.
Adding effects to a specific nature in the tree to boost it alittle might need alpha test to make sure they don't get overpowered. A small boost to  elemental damage is all that would be required to get the desired effect.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 14, 2016, 20:19:24
Holy Shit, that's great.
That would honestly be amazing, the level of individuality in jutsu. 2 people could use the same jutsu and have completely different effects depending on their training.

However there are a few things I'm not clear on. Would the ninjutsu skill tree work like this:

Fire Breath

Damage:1/1000
Chakra consumption:1/1000
Elemental damage:1/1000
Damage:1/1000
Size/Distance:1/1000

These 5 features will directly correlate to the Ninjutsu skill tree? And specific types of training can lead to specific types of increase?
 
Practicing change in chakra control would lead to:


Chakra consumption:50/1000
or?
Distance:50/1000

I feel like I'm mis-interpreting something, but I do have a good grasp as to the general idea. The original plan was that as a jutsu is used, everything about it would improve. But what you're suggesting is that certain things improve with use and others improve via the tree?

What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 20:55:18
What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.

Yes this the idea. The skill tree is representitive of the skills and knowledge you possess. So  imagine a doll as the ninja with nothing in its skill tree... It can't do shit just sit there.
Give it some bass stats, strength, stamina, intelligence, dexterity, and imagination. Now it can walk around, learn, interact with things,and even dream up new things. Teach it a few skills and give it some basic experience to build up its  spiritual energy.

now give it the abuilitys to control chakra.
https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php?topic=2033.15
Now it can use its physical energy (the cotton it's made of) and its spiritual energies ( the skills and experience it has) to make chakra.yhe more points you put in this the better and more chakra your ninja has to use on the next 5 skills it can learn, each with skills  necessary to perform Justu. Some of these skills like chakra control and change in form are the same from one jutsu to another. So a more experienced player would be able to pick up jutsu quicker then one that is not as experienced. All the points added to the tree also get added to the total spirit energy you have and there for  (depending on your Chakra control) can give you even more chakra to use. jutsu have damage and effets training needed to use them programed in to them. Now they just need the  correlated skills to perform them. Then if you have 2x the points nessessary you do 2x the effects and damage and 1/2 the time to learn them. Simple.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 14, 2016, 22:00:50
@Manuster @cmsurfer

Holy Shit, that's great.
That would honestly be amazing, the level of individuality in jutsu. 2 people could use the same jutsu and have completely different effects depending on their training.

That's exactly the idea.
Fire Breath

Damage:1/1000
Chakra consumption:1/1000
Elemental damage:1/1000
Damage:1/1000
Size/Distance:1/1000

These 5 features will directly correlate to the Ninjutsu skill tree? And specific types of training can lead to specific types of increase?
 
Practicing change in chakra control would lead to:


Chakra consumption:50/1000
or?
Distance:50/1000

In my opinion, your first instinct was correct. Investing in chakra control should decrease your chakra consumption across all skills. In your skill tree you can then invest more points in efficiency to decrease that effect even further. This allows for players to have low chakra control over all but still use a certain type of jutsu more efficiently than others.

Think of Rock Lee/Might Guy for example. Terrible ninjutsu/genjutsu users, low chakra control and low chakra pool most likely, they only do physical training and no meditation whatsoever.

However, they can use Taijutsu techniques very VERY efficiently. A character based on these types of characters would have all their points spent in Taijutsu, increasing their damage output, efficiency and decreasing their cooldown/cast speeds for them.

As for your other option, an increase of distance should be another sub-branch in respective elemental tree. For example:

Tier 2:
Flash Fire (0/5)
Increases the distance of channeled fire jutsu's by 12/25/50/75%

Hardened Lungs (0/5)
Increases the distance of ranged fire jutsu's by 5/10/15/20%

This of course is a mere example for Fire elemental skill tree.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 14, 2016, 22:22:38
Quote
Investing in chakra control should decrease your chakra consumption across all skills. In your skill tree you can then invest more points in efficiency to decrease that effect even further. This allows for players to have low chakra control over all but still use a certain type of jutsu more efficiently than others.

this is built in to the chakra control equation I made for that skill already- in the system I discribed in the other post. You don't need to waist points reducing it further...as it is I think a max level of chakra control is  ridiculous .
Remember that jutsu levels go up and effects like range and acuracy do to. The tree should only effect your abuilitys to perform and  execute those effects. Some my be able to add better elemental  Efficiency but it should be general and apply to any jutsu using That nature. If these are in the tree they would work like a buff to any jutsu of that nature while active and any points put in to it would increase the length and effect of the buff.

The Idea is that it's your skills in the tree not the jutsu's abuilitys. What will make you better at performing this jutsu then someone else.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Whatasnipe on June 15, 2016, 01:07:15
Just a quick note on the "only mastering 2" rule we've set up. What if after mastering the second mastering a third is possible, but the XP curve is ridiculously steepened, taking 5 times as long to master as the last. Remember that we have perma death, so if you can even last that long you can do it. Even after mastering every tree by staying alive for an inconceivable amount of, you aren't even unkillable. You can still be outnumbered or outplayed, you just have a lot to show for your experience. Again, Maybe the real mastery is in honing your skills without needing more than 2 trees. Its just an opportunity for there to be the "Madara's" of the world I guess. This isn't something I necessarily agree should be in the game, Again I'm just throwing ideas around
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 15, 2016, 02:03:48
Just a quick note on the "only mastering 2" rule we've set up. What if after mastering the second mastering a third is possible, but the XP curve is ridiculously steepened, taking 5 times as long to master as the last. Remember that we have perma death, so if you can even last that long you can do it. Even after mastering every tree by staying alive for an inconceivable amount of, you aren't even unkillable. You can still be outnumbered or outplayed, you just have a lot to show for your experience. Again, Maybe the real mastery is in honing your skills without needing more than 2 trees. Its just an opportunity for there to be the "Madara's" of the world I guess. This isn't something I necessarily agree should be in the game, Again I'm just throwing ideas around

That's a good idea ngl. I think Vreg said something similar to this actually. There will be nothing preventing you from branching out at an early stage, it would just be dumb.


What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.

Yes this the idea. The skill tree is representitive of the skills and knowledge you possess. So  imagine a doll as the ninja with nothing in its skill tree... It can't do shit just sit there.
Give it some bass stats, strength, stamina, intelligence, dexterity, and imagination. Now it can walk around, learn, interact with things,and even dream up new things. Teach it a few skills and give it some basic experience to build up its  spiritual energy.

now give it the abuilitys to control chakra.
https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php?topic=2033.15
Now it can use its physical energy (the cotton it's made of) and its spiritual energies ( the skills and experience it has) to make chakra.yhe more points you put in this the better and more chakra your ninja has to use on the next 5 skills it can learn, each with skills  necessary to perform Justu. Some of these skills like chakra control and change in form are the same from one jutsu to another. So a more experienced player would be able to pick up jutsu quicker then one that is not as experienced. All the points added to the tree also get added to the total spirit energy you have and there for  (depending on your Chakra control) can give you even more chakra to use. jutsu have damage and effets training needed to use them programed in to them. Now they just need the  correlated skills to perform them. Then if you have 2x the points nessessary you do 2x the effects and damage and 1/2 the time to learn them. Simple.


Good. This is great, I'm finally wrapping my head around that thread of yours.

That doll explanation is also pretty damn good.



However, they can use Taijutsu techniques very VERY efficiently. A character based on these types of characters would have all their points spent in Taijutsu, increasing their damage output, efficiency and decreasing their cooldown/cast speeds for them.

As for your other option, an increase of distance should be another sub-branch in respective elemental tree. For example:

Tier 2:
Flash Fire (0/5)
Increases the distance of channeled fire jutsu's by 12/25/50/75%

Hardened Lungs (0/5)
Increases the distance of ranged fire jutsu's by 5/10/15/20%

This of course is a mere example for Fire elemental skill tree.

Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.

Having one elemental skill tree for all the user's elements doesn't seem right - anyone would be worse at their newly unlocked tertiary element than their mastered primary element - And there is also no point having 5 as the maximum anyone can use is 3.



@Vreg

Thoughts? The ideas are all here and it is something that -to the best of my knowledge- no other game has done before. You might have to put a bit more effort when designing a jutsu, as well as making correlations between jutsu use and skill tree increases.

I personally think that some features about the jutsu should only be affected by the use of that jutsu but again, it's your choice.

It makes the game far more realistic but as for the coding, I have no idea. Nothing about this should be difficult I think.

And sorry for all the tagging I've been doing lately ;_;
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 15, 2016, 11:14:47
Quote
Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.

Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 15, 2016, 15:15:27

The changes to the camera I am talking about are:
- collision with the environment
- aiming mode
Is aiming mode going to be somthing you learn or as a built in Machanic? I posted it here hoping it will be a skill that we can put in the tree to increes are acuracy.
some example are
Target- soft locks camera on target
Bulls eye- soft lock with cross hair
Senbone  accurate - 2x zoom in cross hair
@Vreg
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: lollernoob9 on June 15, 2016, 19:12:28
Vreg hasnt really responded to this or the chakra control thread. probably will once we get to that point tho
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 15, 2016, 20:06:36
Vreg hasnt really responded to this or the chakra control thread. probably will once we get to that point tho
Yeah I know I am just brain storming

There is one other way I can think to do this that go's along with the same line of thinking that jutsu require a spacifc skill set.

That is to have a skill bank.

Instead of having a list of skills available that you can unlock using skill points earned from training.

You train in the skill you want or need and it gets adddd to the skill bank this dose not nessessaraly need to be in order. Some skills  obviously have some prerequisite skills. But  trainers for those skills could be located in a place that you would have to have the prerequisite skill to get to. And you would obviously need to find the trainers of the skills.
The bank would hold all the skills you learn in the game both combat, passive and trainable skills.
Becoming a teacher for example could be a skill you could train.
Novice teacher -basic skills only
Beginner teacher- up to beginner skills
Intermediate "  - up to intermediate skills
(Note if you wanted to be a teacher you must MASTER all novice level skills before you can train to become a novice level teacher from a beginner level teacher.)
And so on

Battle skills
Aim
Taijustu
Ninjutsu
Genjutsu
Bukijutsu
Sensory
And so on each with levels as well

In the bank the skills could be listed 1-100 or however many we end up having or needing.
 
This makes programming the skills to the Jutsu easy as well as making it easy to keep trade of how much( knowlage and training ) Spirit energy you have earned in the training.

So if a Jutsu needs.      Bank skill code
Chakra control(cc)level 3 -   1L3
Advanced cc. L2.   -             36L3
Nature change L1.  -            30L1
Taijustu L4.           -             105L4
Speed up L6.        -             202L6
These would be skills needed for chidori
(In my opinion)
Then chidori would need a code requisite of
1L3_30L3_36L1_105L4_202L6
And these could have some kind of icon tied to the numbers that would be easy to find in the Jutsu scroll.
 
I think this is a better way to go.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 16, 2016, 00:00:27
Quote
Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.[/qoute]

Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.
You included your response in my quote but anyways xD


Again, I don't fully understand what you're trying to say but please be patient - I'm only half your age. xD

From what I can tell you're suggesting that for each chakra nature a user would have to relearn 'change in nature' and 'change in form' for that specific element?

And then, build up on that by then increasing attack and range for that element?

If that's it then it's a really good idea >.>


I think that Kekkei Genkai and Village Legacies should be separate. A character (who's very lucky) should be able to unlock both. In that case, they would have to have separate skill trees.


Also, while the idea of assigning skill points may be more convenient, it is far less realistic than your original idea. >.> In my opinion at least...
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: lollernoob9 on June 16, 2016, 08:27:11
lol Training is suppsoed to take time but the question is what will be improved. Anyway keep up the work (whether its used or not ) its interesting to think about hwo to actually implement training in a way that encourages it while maintaining stats within the (ninja) but fairly human limit
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 16, 2016, 16:39:31
Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.

You included your response in my quote but anyways xD


Again, I don't fully understand what you're trying to say but please be patient - I'm only half your age. xD

From what I can tell you're suggesting that for each chakra nature a user would have to relearn 'change in nature' and 'change in form' for that specific element?

And then, build up on that by then increasing attack and range for that element?

If that's it then it's a really good idea >.>

@Manuster : What I think is that to unlock your first elemental chakra skills, the prerequisites for it are:
"Change in Nature I", which taps into your primary chakra nature (in my character Hayame's case: Earth).

But to use elemental jutsu, pure elemental chakra is not enough. You need to change it's form as well. This is where
"Change Form", comes in. After learning that - congratulations! You can now use elemental jutsu!

To use your second form, all you need to do is learn "Change in Nature II", in which you train yourself to tap into your secondary chakra nature (again in my character Hayame's case it's probably going to be Wind).

Which seems logical to me with what I remember from Naruto's wind training. (Though my memory is often empty af)

Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really ;) Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 16, 2016, 16:53:16
Quote
Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really ;) Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer
Everything is right up till this point.
think about this- is the change in form for sauska's chidori blade the same as the rasangon?? No - one is strait the other is spherical and in constant  Motion. I fact making a strait  solid stream of chakra is relatively easy by comparison. This is why you need more skill points in form change.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 16, 2016, 17:04:59
Quote
Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really ;) Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer
Everything is right up till this point.
think about this- is the change in form for sauska's chidori blade the same as the rasangon?? No - one is strait the other is spherical and in constant  Motion. I fact making a strait  solid stream of chakra is relatively easy by comparison. This is why you need more skill points in form change.

My point was this:

Once you know HOW to shape chakra, all you would need was the training (this can be either RP, uses of basic elemental jutsus or both) in order to gain increased knowledge of how to shape chakra's.

The access to other elemental jutsu's in then only inhibited by the lack of attunement to the other chakra nature (since you already know how to shape chakra.)

Using your straw doll example: You know how to build a Red colored straw doll (FIRE), you're just using different colored straws. But you need to know how to obtain these other colored (FOR EXAMPLE WIND = WHITE) straws.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 16, 2016, 17:41:04
I understand what your saying and you are right.

But it's still the same doll(Jutsu)in the end.

If that's the only form you can make your chakra then you can do a max of 5 Jutsu
And this if by some  miracle you're able to use all five elements.
The element might effect the shape of the Jutsu
Like wind did with naruto. But it's still the same change in form.

The change in form is what your training when you train your Jutsu. Chakra is normally  invisible inside your body. Any change to this is a change in form. This includes non elemental Jutsu. If you have 10 change in forms under your belt in you skill tree then you can use 10 completely different Jutsu and then up to 2 different elemental activations to make a max of 20 if there all elemental Jutsu.
Yin yang Jutsu,effect Jutsu that use chakra like transformation and substitution, these still would need at least one point in change in form.

The other thing is this will all fall in to the much larger category of spirit energy.
We can make training change in form only1 or 2or somthing like that and you'll be able to use whatever form in game. But the more spirit energy you have to make chakra the more chakra you'll have. There's no downside to making a lot of points going in to your skills... It will only make you stronger in the end.

So basically let's say they teach you in the academy how to do the supstatution Jutsu after you accomplish it in training you get the skill points in
Chakra control
Change in form
Stamina
And
Hiding
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 16, 2016, 22:54:20
;_;

Whether or not change in chakra form is unique to a particular element or not, there is still the question of how an individual will train it at first?

Since he/she has 0 change in chakra form, he won't be able to use any jutsu to increase it. How would the shinboi then get their first 'point' to enable elemental use.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 17, 2016, 11:41:06
;_;

Whether or not change in chakra form is unique to a particular element or not, there is still the question of how an individual will train it at first?

Since he/she has 0 change in chakra form, he won't be able to use any jutsu to increase it. How would the shinboi then get their first 'point' to enable elemental use.
I would think you  would get your first point in the Academy. There's no reason there can't be 2 skills a beginner form change and a advance form change. Beginner being non elemental and advanced being elemental. You wouldn't need a point in the skill to learn how to do it . A person that has never used free weights in their life  can be taught how.  However there should be some sort of intelligence cap Or requirement  on some skills.in fact all skills should have a requirement of bass stats.

So your bass stats effect what skills you can learn, your skills effect what Jutsu you can learn and your stats+skill points+ exp= spirit energy used to make chakra to perform the Jutsu you have learned.

If you want to learn every Jutsu in the game spend all your time maxing out your bass stats- then max out your skills- then learn all the Jutsu.

If you want to specialize only train stats the fit your specialty because the the highest level skills in your specialty- such as sage mode-should require stats higher then normal max of strength and intelligence( for game play preposes)
My idea befor of items to boost skills you can learn should be done in boosting stats. This will in turn make the skills your trying to max posable.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Manuster on June 19, 2016, 00:40:55
Soz for the late reply xD

And I finally get this kek, so I'm outta questions xD
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Tsunayoshi on June 19, 2016, 09:48:30
I think that there'll be a lot of tree-walking in this game, and if you have seen the Naruto Series, you'd know that chakra control is needed in this procedure.

This being a naruto-inspired game, they can't force us to do quests, so all this skill managing and stuff will be up to us, well maybe it'll be this Help popups, that comes every once in a while but that's all they can do to control us.

We're ninjas, rogues, merchants, darn this is a world of opportunity.

So back to the tree-walk, I'm thinking that you'll need to tree-walk a lot to get the level up, so that for example: Leveling it up will increase the duration of how long you can walk up a tree. If it's a jutsu, it'll obviously need more chakra to get stronger, every jutsu is stronger if you give it lots of chakra, then again Chakra Control is needed.
---------------.
They could also do so that when we start our character, there's this tutorial teaching us the basics and shit. Teaching us how to do handsigns.

One thing I really, really like about this game is that we must do the handsigns our selves, I've learned the handsigns in-game now by heart. Chidori: 3,9,8 Fire..: 5,8,7,4 Wind...: 2,1,0,9.    Though if you just continue like this it'll be great, but remembering them would be an issue for people.

My apologies for going way off-topic here and there :O
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: lollernoob9 on June 19, 2016, 10:38:18
It doesnt matter if they can remember, because the number of jutsu one has can vary this way, by person. also you can write them down and eventually get muscle memory. if everyone could remember every jutsu it would be interesting but also horrendous. same with remembering none. ppl will be attracted to certain ones and learn them like in naruto.

It will matter more what you are used to using, esp with ranged jutsu having no crosshair ( but directing them better will be added lol ) 
kakashi never uses more than a few jutsu in a fight,tho he knows a thousand as an example
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 19, 2016, 11:02:15
I think that there'll be a lot of tree-walking in this game, and if you have seen the Naruto Series, you'd know that chakra control is needed in this procedure.

This being a naruto-inspired game, they can't force us to do quests, so all this skill managing and stuff will be up to us, well maybe it'll be this Help popups, that comes every once in a while but that's all they can do to control us.

We're ninjas, rogues, merchants, darn this is a world of opportunity.

So back to the tree-walk, I'm thinking that you'll need to tree-walk a lot to get the level up, so that for example: Leveling it up will increase the duration of how long you can walk up a tree. If it's a jutsu, it'll obviously need more chakra to get stronger, every jutsu is stronger if you give it lots of chakra, then again Chakra Control is needed.
---------------.
They could also do so that when we start our character, there's this tutorial teaching us the basics and shit. Teaching us how to do handsigns.

One thing I really, really like about this game is that we must do the handsigns our selves, I've learned the handsigns in-game now by heart. Chidori: 3,9,8 Fire..: 5,8,7,4 Wind...: 2,1,0,9.    Though if you just continue like this it'll be great, but remembering them would be an issue for people.

My apologies for going way off-topic here and there :O
Thanks for joining the discussion and it's ok if you got alittle side tracked there.. This game is full of options and paths to take. But some structure will be needed at least till chunin rank.
As for chakra control the tree climbing is not what takes chakra control. The training was a 2 step process
1 was to send chakra to a specific point in the body- the feet being to most difficult.
2 was to control the flow of output just enough to grip the tree.
This training can be done on flat ground. It's not dissimaler to what the hokaga and the ambu did when pain aproched them they griped the ground with there chakra to try and counter his push.
And so climbing trees is one way to train this but how would sand ninja with no trees around. Well they could use a push or pull method. And train it on flat ground . Eather way you would need some one to train you in this skill and therefor have a source to give you the points for it.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: Tsunayoshi on June 19, 2016, 11:52:28
I think that there'll be a lot of tree-walking in this game, and if you have seen the Naruto Series, you'd know that chakra control is needed in this procedure.

This being a naruto-inspired game, they can't force us to do quests, so all this skill managing and stuff will be up to us, well maybe it'll be this Help popups, that comes every once in a while but that's all they can do to control us.

We're ninjas, rogues, merchants, darn this is a world of opportunity.

So back to the tree-walk, I'm thinking that you'll need to tree-walk a lot to get the level up, so that for example: Leveling it up will increase the duration of how long you can walk up a tree. If it's a jutsu, it'll obviously need more chakra to get stronger, every jutsu is stronger if you give it lots of chakra, then again Chakra Control is needed.
---------------.
They could also do so that when we start our character, there's this tutorial teaching us the basics and shit. Teaching us how to do handsigns.

One thing I really, really like about this game is that we must do the handsigns our selves, I've learned the handsigns in-game now by heart. Chidori: 3,9,8 Fire..: 5,8,7,4 Wind...: 2,1,0,9.    Though if you just continue like this it'll be great, but remembering them would be an issue for people.

My apologies for going way off-topic here and there :O
Thanks for joining the discussion and it's ok if you got alittle side tracked there.. This game is full of options and paths to take. But some structure will be needed at least till chunin rank.
As for chakra control the tree climbing is not what takes chakra control. The training was a 2 step process
1 was to send chakra to a specific point in the body- the feet being to most difficult.
2 was to control the flow of output just enough to grip the tree.
This training can be done on flat ground. It's not dissimaler to what the hokaga and the ambu did when pain aproched them they griped the ground with there chakra to try and counter his push.
And so climbing trees is one way to train this but how would sand ninja with no trees around. Well they could use a push or pull method. And train it on flat ground . Eather way you would need some one to train you in this skill and therefor have a source to give you the points for it.

A 2 step process, which needs Chakra Control. Sending Chakra to a specific body part(chakracontrol), using the correct amount needed(chakracontrol).

Sand Ninja could just run up a building? And if that wasn't a possibility, this trait is only available other places, but living in the Sand village could grant you another special trait only from that place.
Title: Re: Skill tree ideas
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 19, 2016, 12:02:14

Sand Ninja could just run up a building? And if that wasn't a possibility, this trait is only available other places, but living in the Sand village could grant you another special trait only from that place.
True but not chakra control. It's the one skill that all other skills are built on. Every village needs a way to train this. Without it you can't gain the ability to use chakra better. I.E. Not waist as much in battle.
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