Shinobi Life Online
Shinobi Life Online Category => Shinobi Life Online Suggestions => Topic started by: Shivraj on September 27, 2016, 15:11:13
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Darth and I have been brainstorming this idea since... well, today, and I'd like to share it with the staff members to see if they agree with the general direction we're going.
The mechanics the both of us agreed to:
Puppetry:
- Two modes, User Mode and Puppet Mode
- Summoning the puppet will spawn it within the range of 5-7 meters (slightly in front of the user).
- User Mode
• Puppet follows movement of user
• Guards whenever user guards
• User can still use jutsus, tools etc.
• Available to switch to Puppet mode for advanced puppetry controls
- Puppet Mode
• Transfers controls and camera to the puppet.
• Arrow keys to move the user.
• Allows for unique ‘jutsu’, that being the tools available to the puppet.
I. Combinations are limb based and readies specific tools in order. (i.e. ‘134’: 1 opens up the head, 3 reveals the flamethrower and 4 readies the flamethrower.)
II. If the puppet has blades, use the combination to ready the blades. Blades are used for melee, but can be launched from the limbs with aim-mode.
The mini-map works in both the modes but the sensory abilities are somewhat enhanced in the puppet mode. (Due to the chakra passing through the Puppet)
However, there is still an issue we haven't quite agreed on, and that's why we need both the community's and the staff members' help.
That issue would be the camera, we've went with two ideas, which I'll list below:
• The camera stays on the User while it is in User mode and "races over" to the puppet once the modes have been switched
• There are two cameras, one in a small window besides the mini-map and the original camera view. When the mode is switched, the smaller window transitions to being the bigger window and vice versa.
The problem with both of these are the load on the computer performance, and the difficulty it would take to implement them.
I think that the two windows would impact the performance a lot, while Darth thinks the racing over would impact more in an instant and having a constant load is more stable.
Which is why we introduced both options as suggestive ideas, since neither of us know that much about behind the curtain with games.
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Either way the puppet mechanic is gonna be really hard to use in comparison to normal styles. If it does get implemented you should be rewarded for how difficult it is. e.g More damage
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Either way the puppet mechanic is gonna be really hard to use in comparison to normal styles. If it does get implemented you should be rewarded for how difficult it is. e.g More damage
I don't think it would be more difficult than other styles, it'd be like using a shinobi, but this shinobi just has more power. It's to simulate a shinobi while being somewhat further away from the battle.
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Sounds like a super cool idea ^^
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@Vreg
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Much collab, hope it may work out. @Shivraj
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I like the idea of having a puppet with you.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think it'll be easiest to have an AI puppet that fights along side you, like a clone, however, the puppet would have two bars; one for health (green) and one for shield (white). The clone will by default take shield damage when hit and will have a medium-length shield regeneration. Health however will not regenerate, and the puppet will disappear when the user reaches a certain threshold of chakra.
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puppets are for pussies too scared of dying
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I like the idea of having a puppet with you.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think it'll be easiest to have an AI puppet that fights along side you, like a clone, however, the puppet would have two bars; one for health (green) and one for shield (white). The clone will by default take shield damage when hit and will have a medium-length shield regeneration. Health however will not regenerate, and the puppet will disappear when the user reaches a certain threshold of chakra.
That completely takes away the point of having a puppet, wouldn't it XD
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puppets are for pussies too scared of dying
@Mars Yeah...but you have to admit that they usually last longer than raging dicks...
As for the puppets themselves, I don't think it'll necessarily be easy to *hide* when using one, as the attached chakra-strings (or whatever you all end up calling this "Power", if it does come to that stage) are easily visible and would immediately lead right back towards the controlling player-character. And personally, I believe the *zoom-in* camera approach would be far less costly, especially in the long-run, and would allow for a very easy transition; Although additionally, the camera could just be focused on the player-character tracking their puppet, as in the Ninja Storm series (for lack of a better example...although I am curious as to whether or not a Puppet's over-all speed will be Static or Dynamic).
Overall though, Puppet-Master-Jutsu seems to be an on-and-off subject to be agreed upon or denied -- so I'm looking forward to seeing whether or not this thread "Seals the Deal", if you will.
Best of luck though, as this does look fairly promising.
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nice idea,but so the puppets users cant be OP,there stamina should be low af,cuz they dont have good stamina..
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I like the idea of having a puppet with you.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think it'll be easiest to have an AI puppet that fights along side you, like a clone, however, the puppet would have two bars; one for health (green) and one for shield (white). The clone will by default take shield damage when hit and will have a medium-length shield regeneration. Health however will not regenerate, and the puppet will disappear when the user reaches a certain threshold of chakra.
That completely takes away the point of having a puppet, wouldn't it XD
It isn't complicated, and the idea that it has a shield that regenerates should make up for the loss of control the user has upon the puppet. Also, it wouldn't be a stupid AI, it would have basic dodging abilities and great swordsmanship. Whenever it's ready to make a hit, it would almost-instantly jump in-front of the enemy and start slicing them.
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puppets and pussies both contain the letters p, u and e
coincidence? i think not
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puppets and pussies both contain the letters p, u and e
coincidence? i think not
pls Mars, puppets rule so hard :/
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2 things about your ideas @Shivraj @DarthTyrael
You guys rock first of all... the puppet mode idea that switches your basic ninjutsu casting to puppet tools is brilliant... this could be opened up at a certain amount of skill in chakra control and change in form.
As the puppet s have no stamina they can go as long as the chakra of the player holds out. So they will want to train in chakra control anyway.
2 the thing with the camera to Limet the drag on the system a constant 3rd person view would be best. control of the puppets movements however should be simmaler to the aiming mode for the earthdome. This way it feels like your moving the puppet around rather then becoming the puppet yourself.
Once you have moved the puppet in range activating your Jutsu with the way you suggested is perfect. Sence the puppets and chakra are unaffected by physics they will be able to move as fast as your mouse can... this will make close combats kenjutsu with puppets very powerful.
The downside is that the chakra threads are visible, and the caster probably will have lower stamina themselves then most other Shinobi.
But that's because they will be training to get the chakra threads as thin as possible so there barely noticeable.
@Hooke
The amount of damage the puppet should do and can take should be based on the materials used to craft it... I do think it should eventually be one of the most damaging Jutsu because you should be able to customize poisons and attacks resistant if not amune to medical ninjutsu and must be extracted or nutrilized with potions antidotes. only extremely advanced medical ninja should be able to counter the puppets poisons at there highest level.
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control of the puppets movements however should be simmaler to the aiming mode for the earthdome. This way it feels like your moving the puppet around rather then becoming the puppet yourself.
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I had that system in my mind was well, but there's one problem with this statement cm: the puppet cannot rotate freely that way, it'll just be a stationary movement.
It can however rotate as the user rotates, but it cannot rotate away from the user if using the earth dome placement system as it currently is.
True though, it would be more realistic using this POV, instead of looking through the eyes of the puppet.
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What if the animation of the puppets simply fallows the mouse movement so the puppet always faces the direction the mouse moves...
This way you could even get the effect of running your puppet around a target like kankuro dose in naruto. Just by circling your mouse around the target.
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Sorry if you misunderstood me, I mean it cannot rotate around its own axis.
It's like the Earth and the moon. If you would imply the ED placement system, the User (Earth) can rotate around it's own axis with WASD, the Puppet (Moon) can rotate around the User, but cannot rotate around its own axis, thus not really completing the system's complete freedom (Since the moon rotates around its own axis as well).
But then again, this would be with the current ED placement system.
I hope I made my point more clear now.
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No I'm sorry I didn't explain myself better the axis of the puppet is changes by mouse directions was what I meant... so moving the mouse forward would put the puppets back to you.
As well as move the puppet away from you
And moving the mouse left would face the puppets left side to you and move the puppet to the left. So the axis is automatically updated with movement.
This has the added benefit of leaving wasd open for you to strafe and move while controlling your puppet.
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I see...
Well it would complete the "system" as I mentioned earlier... But it would feel a bit clunky in terms of control wise.
Nevertheless it can be mastered and requires skill to use. Could be a valid alternative option imo, should the rest for some reason not work or simply be denied or something like that.
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I see...
Well it would complete the "system" as I mentioned earlier... But it would feel a bit clunky in terms of control wise.
Nevertheless it can be mastered and requires skill to use. Could be a valid alternative option imo, should the rest for some reason not work or simply be denied or something like that.
I love that word -clunky-it is perfect description of how you would expect a puppet to behave. Adds a sence of realism to the puppets use.
if puppet are implemented I think it will add more of a naruto element to the game and drive the crafting and sandbox features of the game, because it will open up reasons to learn crafting skills for poisons, metallurgy, explosives, and mechanism. As well as the need for the items needed to make them. This in turn will dive the economy more and available missions more.
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Honestly, I feel that the camera should follow the puppet because it'd make it somewhat easier to use taijutsu and kenjutsu, but that somewhat takes away the realism.
That being said, I think it should be hard to master this art, I remember playing a game with puppetry as a fighting style, I shall link it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zF3Sj8wWn8
I would suggest a camera angle like that, although a bit more tailored to SLO.
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Honestly, I feel that the camera should follow the puppet because it'd make it somewhat easier to use taijutsu and kenjutsu, but that somewhat takes away the realism.
That being said, I think it should be hard to master this art, I remember playing a game with puppetry as a fighting style, I shall link it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zF3Sj8wWn8
I would suggest a camera angle like that, although a bit more tailored to SLO.
This is what I had in mind- a 3rd person camera that fallows the movements of both puppet and ninja. But instead of programmed attack animations and AI- you will have full control over the attack direction and movement of the puppets. because the movement and positioning of the puppets is difficult most of the puppets attacks should consist of aoe attacks and hard lock combos when a target is in range.
Just my 2 sence on targeting for puppets
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I like the idea of having a puppet with you.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I think it'll be easiest to have an AI puppet that fights along side you, like a clone, however, the puppet would have two bars; one for health (green) and one for shield (white). The clone will by default take shield damage when hit and will have a medium-length shield regeneration. Health however will not regenerate, and the puppet will disappear when the user reaches a certain threshold of chakra.
That completely takes away the point of having a puppet, wouldn't it XD
It isn't complicated, and the idea that it has a shield that regenerates should make up for the loss of control the user has upon the puppet. Also, it wouldn't be a stupid AI, it would have basic dodging abilities and great swordsmanship. Whenever it's ready to make a hit, it would almost-instantly jump in-front of the enemy and start slicing them.
The point of a puppet is to control it directly. Otherwise the it would just be another run of the mill clone, but with extra armor. Sure, it's much simpler, but you can't really call it a puppet at that point, and it certainly wouldn't feel like the puppetry in Naruto.
As for the camera angle, I'd prefer the camera stays by the user, because it would be easier for the player to watch out for sneak attacks and respond quickly to them. After all, it's not the puppet that'll die, it's the puppeteer.
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I think that it should be like,
User mode - Normal camera, and the puppet moves like it does in there
Puppet mode - The camera shown there and the puppet is the only one moving with the wasd, the user can move using the arrow keys, and basically what the post dictates
That would make for a "good"-ish system regarding the camera, and to be honest, it might not "fit" that well, but I'm sure the staff can polish the camera if we just work on the mechanics, the mouse to rotate system just feels, idk, "tedious" I suppose.
As for the camera angle, I'd prefer the camera stays by the user, because it would be easier for the player to watch out for sneak attacks and respond quickly to them. After all, it's not the puppet that'll die, it's the puppeteer.
that's why there's the Sensory abilities, not to mention, the top-down-ish view as shown in that video would somewhat solve that, not to mention, I don't mean it to be so angled, more like a 40° from the user I suppose.
This kind of "mixes" the two ideas Darth and I had, about the racing over and the two cameras, although it adds a new element of it's own.
The controls can stay the same, and the camera can be convenient too. I still understand it being by the user though, so that's be okay-ish too. (For the Realism) We'd have to see how it works out with that though, because we don't want to repel people from one style for the sake of realism.
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I'd like it if you would stop sharing your opinion unless it helps in the development of this suggestion. Thanks.
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There is no need for a user mode
The camera in game now just needs to zoom out slightly in puppet mode
Switching in and out of puppet mode would only be needed when your done fighting or begin fighting. to make the transition seem less obvious the user mode should simply be the default- meaning you put your puppet away.
Why would you advertise your fighting style with a puppet fallowing you around all the time using up chakra. You would eather roll it up on your back or ideally use a Fuinjutsu scroll like cheo
As for the mouse control... I think that this in combination with a hard lock targeting system for Malay combat will not be as cumbersome as some think because the axis changes when you move the mouse, you merely need to move the pointer to the target and hit your Jutsu command. This makes people have to block the puppets while trying to move to attack the puppeteer. The puppeteers best defence is his puppet.
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Vreg announced that there will be no puppets. @Shivraj Please, close the topic. There's no use in continuing this puppet discussion further.
(https://gyazo.com/88896b50a5243d0165cf6590c0400c07.png)
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I'd like it if you would stop sharing your opinion unless it helps in the development of this suggestion. Thanks.
(https://i.gyazo.com/450cb06b3b3e1a8df540f2ef967fcb0c.png)
but the man himself said it too