Shinobi Life Online

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mars on December 26, 2015, 23:20:17

Title: Is God real
Post by: Mars on December 26, 2015, 23:20:17
Post your opinion in a respectful manner. Hopefully a mature debate will start.
@Shivraj I'm not salty or anything but I actually want this discussion.
I'll try and counter any argument disregarding the existance of god
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Nas on December 26, 2015, 23:33:17
uhmm tbh i feel this shouldn't really be a thread....religion is a very very sensitive subject everyone is entitled to whatever, whether they have faith or not and good comes out of a controversial topic like this
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: limits on December 27, 2015, 00:39:50
i feel the same way nas, these kind of topics can't be logically proven, they're based of ones opinion, hence this is why alot of arguments come from religion based subjects
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Narutoi on December 27, 2015, 01:33:20
I know I'm a few hours late but here's my opinion. It might sound dark but you will have your answer when your dead. Judging from how the dead haven't come to tell us what happened when they died, when we die we might be restricted for spreading the information to the living. Just an opinion.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Narutoi on December 27, 2015, 01:37:07
I know I'm a few hours late but here's my opinion. It might sound dark but you will have your answer when your dead. Judging from how the dead haven't come to tell us what happened when they died, when we die we might be restricted for spreading the information to the living. Just an opinion.
Adding to that, another reason that the dead aren't able to communicate with us the information of what happened to them could be that they are lost completely. No consciousness, mind, or soul. Thanks Light Yamagi Senpai you taught me well of your dark ways.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: json243 on December 27, 2015, 01:50:51
I honestly have no clue but everybody is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, soooooooooooo yeah.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Tameshi Hinode on December 27, 2015, 04:58:22
Threads like this,often bring up tension.
Thats why some forums dont even allow users to bring up in-depth topics abot politics,or also religion.

@Mars
I am a christian too.
Not a very good or strict one,but i still am.
But i think this really got into you and i suggest you let it go.
Not for others,just for yourself.

About the question if god is real or not:
It cant be proven.
It cant be proven that god is real,but it also cant be proven that god is not real.
But,does this really matter as much as we think it does?
If you are dead,you will have the chance to find it out.
If god wouldnt be real,people could still learn something from religion,no matter if god is real or not,and thats what counts.
Religion can motivate many people to show kindness,empathy,tollerance and patience.
Religion can even take away the fear of death,leading to a more comfortable time while youre still alive.
So,the question is not if god is real,the question is:What can i learn from that religion?
What kind of impact does this religion have on me?

No matter if god exists or not.
I do what i think is the right thing to do.

PS:Beeing loyal to yourself and your faith is admirable.
Fanatism is not.
Keep your head high.
If you want to talk about this in private,maybe,im there.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: America on December 27, 2015, 06:08:27
(http://i.imgur.com/logq2OT.jpg)

you know what i like more than my lamborghini?
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Shivraj on December 27, 2015, 08:39:02
TBH Mars, as many others said, this topic is really sensitive, and many embrace religion for personal reasons, and I'd rather not start that debate where everyone can see. Perhaps, let's just stick to our own opinions. There really isn't a way to prove His existence, nor is there a way to prove His non-existence, so why bring up this fruitless debate when neither side has enough evidence? You're more than welcome to PM me your side if you really want to, but don't do it in public please.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Sanji on December 27, 2015, 17:59:37
u should delete this topic.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on December 27, 2015, 20:06:28
im christian so i am convinced that god is real

that being said there are really only 2 options no matter what faith you have embraced

ether EVERYTHING was designed and created BY A  GOD

or NOTHING WAS and everything came to exist as a chance occurrence

i am convinced there is a god simply because a house, a computer game, anything that shows
structure and intelligent design never came about by accident. the dna in all living things are far more complex then any computer code or building schematic .

for me faith starts with this one thought

Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Mars on December 27, 2015, 20:23:15
Meh
There are numerous arguments to prove gods existence yet there's only one argument to disprove it. That being "He's not real, science is."
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on December 27, 2015, 20:53:26
except science supports the arguments that he dose exists more then it disproves it
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: taigakun on December 27, 2015, 21:34:41
except science supports the arguments that he dose exists more then it disproves it

true that
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: SantanosRabi on June 04, 2017, 21:38:05
Definitely believe God exists. I can long for his love and feel it overwhelmingly entering me, transforming me from inside into a more and more benevolent entity. An incredible peace, love and sense of wonder, simply by sincerely asking whatever created me to give me his/her love. Everyone can do it and transform himself more better and better, unlocking abilities and senses u didn't even know exist.

One thing for sure, it's better than any sharingan or super sayan mode you could ever imagine, and it's objectively real. Everyone should give it a try.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Reminance on June 04, 2017, 22:52:34
I don't care for god nor science, i don't care what happens when i die.
I just go with the flow i suppose...
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 04, 2017, 23:13:17
well if we accept the premise that God is real the next logical question is what God?
This is why many wars have happened over the years. Every one Is up in arms about
religious extremist But the majority of the world is some form of christen and they got
that way because of there zealous, Forceful spread of that faith.
Early on many times through violent methods.
But dose that mean that the bible is to blame?

where do you turn for your faith in God?

Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Fraudulent on June 04, 2017, 23:42:19
Everyone has their own God and God can be anything.
God = a figure of supremacy - it doesn't even have to be one from common religions.
You can worship anything and give it the title of God.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Mars on June 05, 2017, 09:12:27
Everyone has their own God and God can be anything.
God = a figure of supremacy - it doesn't even have to be one from common religions.

Well that's just utter bullshit LOL

(https://i.gyazo.com/47e51d1b9c7dd00fdbcbecc49122da39.png)

Sure you may use it in that way but that isn't what God is nor is that anything close to the definition.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 05, 2017, 11:25:48
Everyone has their own God and God can be anything.
God = a figure of supremacy - it doesn't even have to be one from common religions.

Well that's just utter bullshit LOL

(https://i.gyazo.com/47e51d1b9c7dd00fdbcbecc49122da39.png)

Sure you may use it in that way but that isn't what God is nor is that anything close to the definition.

Snoopy made a common  grammatical error.
There is God ( mars definition)
And god somthing that you worship.
The definition of worship is love unconditional.
This can be anything a person place or thing.
Money can be your god
But God created all things.
In the above examples I'm describing god as the love of money.
But money obviously did not build the universe. God when used like this can take the place of the name of the god you believe in. In my case Jehovah. Because it is being used as a title or a proper name it is capitalized. But its use in the sentence also changes its meaning.

But this leads to a interesting topic. If you believe in 1 god and that god demands that you worship only it. Then God becomes less accurate and to avoid confusion naming the god you believing is a better idea.
God is actually a title like Judge.
Gods name has bin largely removed from the bible because of catholic traditions.
Gods name is actually Jehovah in the bible. However in 1 John 1:1 Jesus with his title as The Word is referred to as god, but with a lower case g. this is to suggest that he should be loved unconditionally. But there is only 1 title of God and that belongs to Jehovah in the bible.

P.S. I know I usually don't give a dame about grammar but in this case I have studied the topic carfuly so I'm trying extra hard. English sucks.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Konohuro on June 05, 2017, 18:59:09
From my own experience I am assured that something greater than humanity exists.

At the moment I believe in God, but I am still studying the religions history and theories and I aim to gain a strong general knowledge of religions before declaring that Christian God is real or not.
This is what I would advise you to do as well.

From my point of view, you have no chance to determine what is good or what is bad, what is true or what is not unless you know both sides. You can't say that one coin is the shiniest of them all if you haven't seen any other coin until then.

I find it kind of ridiculous when I talk with people and they say that they are devoted to Quaran (example), and that they know that Allah is the one and true god, but after a few questions I realise that they don't know who Jesus is nor what Tao is nor what Buddha means.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Manuster on June 05, 2017, 19:06:26
If we could prove that God is real then Christianity wouldn't be a faith based religion.

The entire point of Christianity is that you have faith in God despite irrefutable proof, this faith causes you to change your behaviour and hence you are rewarded.


From my own experience I am assured that something greater than humanity exists.

At the moment I believe in God, but I am still studying the religions history and theories and I aim to gain a strong general knowledge of religions before declaring that Christian God is real or not.
This is what I would advise you to do as well.

From my point of view, you have no chance to determine what is good or what is bad, what is true or what is not unless you know both sides. You can't say that one coin is the shiniest of them all if you haven't seen any other coin until then.

I find it kind of ridiculous when I talk with people and they say that they are devoted to Quaran (example), and that they know that Allah is the one and true god, but after a few questions I realise that they don't know who Jesus is nor what Tao is nor what Buddha means.

Nice man, about the other religionos bit, I kinda agree. Studying them without even particularly participating can't do any harm...
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 05, 2017, 19:15:11
I Agree  with you completely konohuro!!!
I personally have studied Jewish, Shinto, Hindi,
Islam, and Christian faiths. I'm not saying I know everything about all of them but I believe I don't need to. To use your coin illustration you don't need to examine them down to molecules to know that some are chocolate coins covers in tin. I don't trust faiths taught by man. I trust the Bible. I draw my own conclusions about that the Bible teaches and try and find people that see things the same way. I encourage everyone to do the same.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: IbrahimRafi on June 05, 2017, 19:54:31
May I please borrow a few minutes from your time to explain about our lord and saviour!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 05, 2017, 20:11:31
May I please borrow a few minutes from your time to explain about our lord and saviour!
If you can spare a few so I can explain about his father and his God.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: IbrahimRafi on June 05, 2017, 20:12:34
May I please borrow a few minutes from your time to explain about our lord and saviour!
If you can spare a few so I can explain about his father and his God.
Tf you talking about, I'm talking about Vreg.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 05, 2017, 20:41:03
Quite frankly I'm skeptical concerning the whole idea of 'religion', mainly due to the conflict it tends to awaken in certain individuals within two different religions. Of course, this conflict does not limit itself to religion only, but that can be discussed some other time.

As for whether a god exists is hard to debate. It depends on what aspect of god you wish to interpret. The God of Christianity, Hinduism, Islam etc. are all concepts that I neglect, but their mutual attributes is one that I accept:

Quote
An essence or entity that exists beyond our 'physical' realm that does not age, that is within everything and when we die, we merge with it.

As we die, our body decays, our molecules dissolve, releasing the energy and atoms that was within our molecular bonds to our environment (be that limited to Earth or the universe).

One may think that the atoms that are left behind are our physical connection to this 'realm', whereas the energy that's dissipated (which has no limit to dimensions) is our connection to the 'hereafter' and as it spreads throughout this dimension, we become one with it and thus ascend from our current state of being.



Yeah, seems a bit off for me to talk like this, but this is the only way I could think of combining my knowledge of science with the faith of an afterlife. (note: not religion.)

I hope my point of view may have opened a new perspective.

P.S. SantanosRabi is a necromancer </3
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 05, 2017, 21:07:50
Intristingly the Bible dose not support the idea of an afterlife. Energy transforms but is never distroyed this is true science. But if that energy was what people call the soul then decay would happen instantly after physical death. Decay is the process of the entrupy of energy from the body. Man was created to live forever. God put forever in are hearts the Bible says. Are desire to live past death dose not mean it's real. Death is a punishment. Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times. But the Bible also provides hope for this condition. Everlasting life on earth.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Reminance on June 05, 2017, 21:28:27
Intristingly the Bible dose not support the idea of an afterlife. Energy transforms but is never distroyed this is true science. But if that energy was what people call the soul then decay would happen instantly after physical death. Decay is the process of the entrupy of energy from the body. Man was created to live forever. God put forever in are hearts the Bible says. Are desire to live past death dose not mean it's real. Death is a punishment. Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times. But the Bible also provides hope for this condition. Everlasting life on earth.
The earth won't exist forever.
At some point the sun will be "empty" leaving us with the end of the world as we know it :p
Directed to your last sentence.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 05, 2017, 21:29:34
Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times.

Uh... yeah it can. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere)
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 05, 2017, 21:55:34
Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times.

Uh... yeah it can. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere)

Um no it doesn't it dose not explain why the  chromosome cannot reproduce fully. That is the reason there shorter each time. All the results say they should split completely but for some reason it's inerupted.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 06, 2017, 07:27:36
Not sure what your question really is, but the reason why cells can't reproduce infinitely IS due to the fact the telomeres shorten.

Quote
During chromosome replication, the enzymes that duplicate DNA cannot continue their duplication all the way to the end of a chromosome, so in each duplication the end of the chromosome is shortened (this is because the synthesis of Okazaki fragments requires RNA primers attaching ahead on the lagging strand).

Basically the telomeres function as a failsafe, for if the telomeres are shorter than like 100 base pairs, the cell becomes inactive and cannot divide further (preventing DNA damage), until another cell activates the telomere repairing enzyme (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomerase_reverse_transcriptase) within this cell. That happens rarely. Mostly the cell just remains inactive or goes into apoptosis (i.e. "programmed cell death")

Some cells have this enzyme that allows them to split indefinitely (stem cells), but this is only because their function is to split and multiply.

Sometimes cancer can have the enzyme active, which makes it a very potent cancer type (e.g. HELA cells).

What I'm trying to say here is that if all of your cells would have this enzyme active, you'd grow and grow in mass, height etc indefinitely, losing overall structure and becoming an unstable organism because your cells don't have the time to settle and specialise. The only way your cells would become truely immortal is if they'd never divide and never died, for which means they'd have to never be active (i.e. perform metabolic activities).



But we digress, let's keep this topic on "god"

Let me know in PM if this answered your questions.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 06, 2017, 17:28:36
This is not at all off topic.
What are the chances  the code written in DNA happens by accident?

It's like saying some random convergence of ones and zeros on the internet randomly bumped in to each other over millions of years and became the most complex program in the world!!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: StriderOtaku on June 06, 2017, 19:45:25
Intristingly the Bible dose not support the idea of an afterlife. Energy transforms but is never distroyed this is true science. But if that energy was what people call the soul then decay would happen instantly after physical death. Decay is the process of the entrupy of energy from the body. Man was created to live forever. God put forever in are hearts the Bible says. Are desire to live past death dose not mean it's real. Death is a punishment. Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times. But the Bible also provides hope for this condition. Everlasting life on earth.
I like to steer clear of these kind of arguments (there is really never a religious discussion between atheists and believers) but it's worth mentioning that I agreed with you @NinjaMirage until this point(s) (in the quote above).
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Manuster on June 06, 2017, 23:27:19
This is not at all off topic.
What are the chances the code written in DNA happens by accident?

It's like saying some random convergence of ones and zeros on the internet randomly bumped in to each other over millions of years and became the most complex program in the world!!!


That's the legitimately the smartest thing I've ever read....

May I please borrow a few minutes from your time to explain about our lord and saviour!
If you can spare a few so I can explain about his father and his God.
Tf you talking about, I'm talking about Vreg.

What scratch that...this is

Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 07, 2017, 16:02:24
Erm @DarthTyrael  humans don't exist due to chance, haven't you read the "Is God even real" thread smh

and ironically, humans do become a sort of 'demigod' once they reach Heaven

rip.

@Manuster

Evolution wise, it was chance. Chance that a monkey species evolved to the Homo sapiens, chance that one cell decided that more cells would be more proficient. Chance that life in it self, could happen on Earth. Chance that the Earth was /just/ close enough to the sun for a sustainable ecosystem.

Religion wise, it's still chance. What if God chose to create flies in it's image? We'd never have existed in the first place

@DarthTyrael
2 Questions about this...

1 this sounds like you have a lot of faith in evelution Do you??

2 assuming you do and assuming your understanding of what it means to be made in God image is right!! Evelution is still less then 1/10^100000 % chance that life just  accidentally happened  where as creation is till 100% chance of some form of life happining. But would they be fly people?
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: DarthTyrael on June 07, 2017, 18:59:23
Erm @DarthTyrael  humans don't exist due to chance, haven't you read the "Is God even real" thread smh

and ironically, humans do become a sort of 'demigod' once they reach Heaven

rip.

@Manuster

Evolution wise, it was chance. Chance that a monkey species evolved to the Homo sapiens, chance that one cell decided that more cells would be more proficient. Chance that life in it self, could happen on Earth. Chance that the Earth was /just/ close enough to the sun for a sustainable ecosystem.

Religion wise, it's still chance. What if God chose to create flies in it's image? We'd never have existed in the first place

@DarthTyrael
2 Questions about this...

1 this sounds like you have a lot of faith in evelution Do you??

2 assuming you do and assuming your understanding of what it means to be made in God image is right!! Evelution is still less then 1/10^100000 % chance that life just  accidentally happened  where as creation is till 100% chance of some form of life happining. But would they be fly people?

@NinjaMirage
1. I do. I've been raised in a Christian environment, been baptised and what not, but in all honesty, I don't believe in an all-mighty entity pulling the strings of the universe like a boring puppet show for all the other deities.

My view is the idea of chance scares people, unless they have a lot  to gain  and not a lot to lose. On this idea, religion was formed, creating a safe haven for the thing that frightens people the most at that time and could happen any day, on any hour (and far more often than nowadays) - death.

The idea of an after-life where everything is blissful and every moment is pure ecstasy is the best gain one could have if you'd just believe. If it's not there you'd never notice either way, so win-win.

2. Getting a random mutation due to a failure in reconstructing the DNA after it's duplicated is also roughly 1/200.000 (might be less, forgive me if I don't know the exact number)
It still happens. Every few months. You might notice a light pigmentation spot on your arm, but most of the times nothing serious happens. Of course there are people that can get cancer in this way but mostly this is due getting into contact with carcinogenic substances (not restricted to cigarettes, there are a ton).

As for the "fly people", I was referring more to the actual common fly to be "the perfect creature in God's eyes" rather than humans. If that was the case, chances are (according to the bible) that we'd never have existed in the first place. But I commend you for your imagination nevertheless :)

My point is, if small odds like that happen, even in physics experiments where quantum phenomena, how unlikely they happen, are observed, then surely it's plausible for life to have happened /per chance/

Side note: Evolution =/= how life -started-, it's how life changed. Evolution has been pretty solidly proven, whereas "how life started" is still a theory (but more plausible than the bible imho).
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Yamasukage on June 07, 2017, 20:59:49
I say...let's all have our sexeh faiths and believes then die and 1/100 of us ends up right

i mean it's not like we'll go to hell or become non existant
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 07, 2017, 23:11:26
Just a small comment, since many of you seem to not be accepting the close-to-0 chance everything happened by chance, keep in mind in our universe there's an almost endless supply of possibilities (literally trillions of them just in our galaxy cluster alone today) ergo if something has even 0.0000001% chance of happening it probably did because 0.0000001%*10^9=100%. Kinda like the fermi paradox but applied to us.

However I do find this thread cancerous since whatever I say can be countered by the "god works in mysterious ways" fallacy when a god-fearing person decides he can't counter argument me so I'll refrain from participating too much in this pseudo-debate.

Also let's keep the semantics correct, faith =/= belief. Faith is blindly believing in something regardless of its logic whereas belief is accepting something based on reason and logic. Example: I have faith I'll pass my exam next week, I believe I'm gonna fail big time.
I believe DarthTyrael believes in evolution, not that he has faith in it like Ninja asked.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Leebz on June 08, 2017, 00:14:10
Why the fuck are old topics being revived. Is the forums that dead now or? Smfh. @SantanosRabi what made you want to revive this exactly?
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 08, 2017, 17:33:01
However I do find this thread cancerous since whatever I say can be countered by the "god works in mysterious ways" fallacy when a god-fearing person decides he can't counter argument me so I'll refrain from participating too much in this pseudo-debate.

Also let's keep the semantics correct, faith =/= belief. Faith is blindly believing in something regardless of its logic whereas belief is accepting something based on reason and logic. Example: I have faith I'll pass my exam next week, I believe I'm gonna fail big time.
I believe DarthTyrael believes in evolution, not that he has faith in it like Ninja asked.

2 things about this. First don't trust someone that says god works in mysterious ways. That's a cop out way of saying I don't know the awnser to your question. The Bible explains everything without condridictions. If it appears to contradict it's self you the reader are taking somthing out of context.

Secondly Bible discribs faith = the assured explanation of thing hoped for,
Meaning you would have faith you'll pass the test BECAUSE you prepared for it.
Or
The evident demonstrations of realitys though not beheld.
I.e I have faith gravity exists because I can feel its effects but can't see it.

Someone's belief is the trust in that faith. This can be strong or week.

So saying you have faith in evelution falls under the second because while adeptation is observable- evelution is not but is in stead a theory based on facts. Much like most religious beliefs.
I have faith Jesus is gods son. It's a fact he was here on earth, but you can see him ruling i heaven. That's faith!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 08, 2017, 18:49:48
@NinjaMirage Glad you don't use that pseudo-argument. However saying "if it seems to contradict itself it's because the reader is reading it wrong" is equally false. Whenever something can be used to justify any and everything you can safely assume it's a false argument.
Plus the bible was supposedly written along ages and by many men, I never really understood why people say it's the word of god when it was written by people. Therefore I don't see why it can't contradict itself.
Not just that it was also written in arabic, then translated to latin, then old english and only then modern english... Lots of meanings were lost in these translations, no matter how hard you try there are words that you just can't translate correctly. Have you ever read an original piece by Shakespeare? Some passages are already unreadable by modern English and that was only 500 years ago.

Regardless, my english semantics "bible" is the oxford dictionary and it says I'm correct about faith, sorry: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/faith (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/faith)

But I was wrong about belief, it seems that faith is simply a specific case of belief. I wonder what's the word for "An acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one with proof"
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 08, 2017, 23:20:25
Blazefp your right it was written by men. These men were flawed like all men. But let me illustrate it this way. Your a CEO of a company!!
Your need to over see many things and also need to write a Manuel for your employees to do there jobs well and make less mistakes.
You bring in your secretary that wrights the Manuel as you dictate the instructions.

Your secretary wrote the words but there your words. Who is the author?? Now you as a CEO are could do this yourself but if you were a lowly employee you would likely be able to understand the message better if it goes through someone with your level of education. You as the CEO look over the final draft and send out the secretary to wright it up!!!

The Bible says that all scriptures is inspired of god for teaching reproving and setting things strait,  disciplining in righteousness that the man of God may be fully competent completely equipped for every good work.  2 Timothy 3:16

It's possible that the translation could be wrong. But if god is the author don't you think he would not let that happen?
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 08, 2017, 23:49:31
Sorry for the double post but I missed this so I wanted to respond.

Intristingly the Bible dose not support the idea of an afterlife. Energy transforms but is never distroyed this is true science. But if that energy was what people call the soul then decay would happen instantly after physical death. Decay is the process of the entrupy of energy from the body. Man was created to live forever. God put forever in are hearts the Bible says. Are desire to live past death dose not mean it's real. Death is a punishment. Science can't explain why cells can only split a limited number of times. But the Bible also provides hope for this condition. Everlasting life on earth.
The earth won't exist forever.
At some point the sun will be "empty" leaving us with the end of the world as we know it :p
Directed to your last sentence.

If it is not replenished with matter it will burn out. Fortunately there is no shortage of asteroids in our Galaxy. We already have the abuility to create the atomic reactions the sun uses so there's no reason to worry about that.  The Bible promises that the righteous will live on earth forever. Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth,And they will live forever on it
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: dayvideo12 on June 09, 2017, 00:33:20
god is real....
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 09, 2017, 01:10:23
@NinjaMirage As a CEO I'd have to review the entire manual and then sign it. I don't remember any signature in the bible from any deity. All I see is people writing that god spoke to them this or that way and their interpretation of it. Don't even know who chose those writers anyway.
I don't think god would be so careful to make sure his writers would get the bible correct across the ages and across languages but then only publish it a couple of thousands of years ago when we exist for millennia before that. Or that he'd overlook countless examples of misuse of religion and power across time. Or that I can remember a thousand different better ways of making a more obvious and objective standpoint so people could choose to follow that doctrine instead of leaving it not only to the interpretations of the writers but also to the interpretation of the translators, language itself and the readers. Or that there's literally hundreds of other religions with very similar layout and also a sacred book with rules and doctrines. What makes this one so special?
 
If he exists it wouldn't be any different than our relationship with sims on a much more massive scale. But whether that's the case or not I can disagree with him and if he doesn't accept that then he's only proving that he's not all forgiving after all.


And good men die and are forgotten in time. Just like evil men and questionable men do. Cunning men on the other hand seem to have more chances to be remembered though. In fact I could argue that there's way more evil men remembered through history than righteous men. But again you can understand "live forever on it [the earth]" in a lot of different ways so really everyone is right and therefore the premise is wrong...
Also not very keen to accept promises from books that present 0 rational/scientific evidences whatsoever.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 09, 2017, 01:56:17
So if you can see spacific examples of scientific truth that people in the time the Bible was written could not possible know, would that count as a signature?? Also he made sure his name was in it. How many signatures do you need? As for the time before the book was written. No one knows how long Adam lived before eve was created. But I find that most people that aren't open to the possibility of a god are people that don't want the responsibility of haveing to deal this what that might meen for them.

Also he isn't not ALL forgiving!!!  He is all loving and dose not want anyone to die. But the Bible talks about unforgettable sins. HIs justice won't allow these sins to go unpunished. However death is the wages of all sin so you could say we are all on death row. The good news is someone  bailed us out and all they ask is we get to know them and believe in that gift.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Konohuro on June 09, 2017, 15:24:51
This really gets cancerous.


@NinjaMirage As a CEO I'd have to review the entire manual and then sign it. I don't remember any signature in the bible from any deity. All I see is people writing that god spoke to them this or that way and their interpretation of it. Don't even know who chose those writers anyway.
I don't think god would be so careful to make sure his writers would get the bible correct across the ages and across languages but then only publish it a couple of thousands of years ago when we exist for millennia before that. Or that he'd overlook countless examples of misuse of religion and power across time. Or that I can remember a thousand different better ways of making a more obvious and objective standpoint so people could choose to follow that doctrine instead of leaving it not only to the interpretations of the writers but also to the interpretation of the translators, language itself and the readers. Or that there's literally hundreds of other religions with very similar layout and also a sacred book with rules and doctrines. What makes this one so special?
 

Yet another person speaking without background knowledge...
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 09, 2017, 17:52:43
@NinjaMirage Given your age (I'll assume you're being honest) and your knowledge on biblical passages I'd say you're pretty much set on your beliefs, so I won't push this much further.

So if you can see spacific examples of scientific truth that people in the time the Bible was written could not possible know, would that count as a signature??


No, Nostradamus did that, got somethings right other wrong but he used to write in such vague terms that really it wouldn't be hard to fit some actual events to his predictions. Same goes with the bible.
Plus just because we don't know how they could have known that doesn't mean it was god that told them that. Really if an almighty being wants to say something why would he use one chosen individual at a time to pass on his message into a book?

Adam and Eve never lived btw, I hope you're not taking that story literally.

Also he isn't not ALL forgiving!!!  He is all loving and dose not want anyone to die. But the Bible talks about unforgettable sins. HIs justice won't allow these sins to go unpunished. However death is the wages of all sin so you could say we are all on death row. The good news is someone  bailed us out and all they ask is we get to know them and believe in that gift.


I honestly don't even know where to start...

@Konohuro Shhh mate I was winning that argument! I do have background knowledge but there's no way anyone can prove or disprove any of this because we're all pixels in our screens. I honestly have though. Keep in mind things might be different for smaller or bigger companies and across countries but generally speaking the CEO has to authorize most of the paperwork, sometimes via other people but at least the most important documents get his signature.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 09, 2017, 23:14:59
You can look in my profile for my age but I'm 34 years old. As for why a book?? Have ever played a game of telephone?? If you think the odds of  translations being wrong now  imagine if it wasn't even written down!!

 As for empirical proof - your absolutely right I can't give you something solid to hold in your hand and see. But I can't do that for gravity  either. There's math that proves gravity exists, and I believe there's math that proves god exists.

There is nothing in my life that has not bin improved by fallowing what the Bible says. And every time I have ignored a  warning spelled out in that book I have suffered for it.
This combined with certain scientifically proven scriptures is enough of an effect that I can see to equal the effect of gravity I can see.

This is gods signature on the Bible. But you have to Read trough and apply it to your life to see it.

As for comparing Nostradamus to the Bible... that just shows how little you really know. The Bible's prophecys have listed people and events by name!!! Not at all  General. Others are but there is more then enuph information for any reasonable person to say ok the Bible might be from god. And it's out right unreasonable to say that god cannot and dose not exist... the Bible calls such ones fools!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 10, 2017, 00:26:07
As for why a book?? Have ever played a game of telephone?? If you think the odds of  translations being wrong now  imagine if it wasn't even written down!!

That'd be fun hehe but I was saying he could have written it down himself or showed up and actually do stuff, instead of giving vague signals to prophets and appearing in dreams or asking people to sacrifice their children and chicken out at the last minute.

There's math that proves gravity exists, and I believe there's math that proves god exists.

Never heard of math that proves god exists. One of the cool things about science is that something only gets proven if you can test it irl, for instance by using the maths F=G*(m1*m2)/r^2 I can prove that the earth will be back at the current position in relation to the sun exactly 1 year from now. I don't see how you can use an equation and test it to prove god exists... Never heard of it before but if you know something about it, by all means show it, I'll change my mind if there's actual evidence to support it.

There is nothing in my life that has not bin improved by fallowing what the Bible says. And every time I have ignored a  warning spelled out in that book I have suffered for it.

Sure, every person that drinks water eventually dies therefore water kills... There's absolutely no causality in your argument and wouldn't explain the ~50% of non-christians/islamics around the world that are doing just fine. Me included.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 10, 2017, 02:21:24
The equation for gravitys effect on are planet is great but all it really proves is that the planet travels around the sun. It dose not prove that gravity exist. For example I could say( because I have an imagination) that gravity is an  illusion. At a quantum level all mater is  tethered to each other by strings and what we preserve as gravity is the fixed movements of mater in the universe. The size of the matter dictates the strain on thes strings giving it a fixed speed. This is obviously crap!!
But it explains the same thing as that equation with the same evedince.

The point is you can't see gravity because it's a force. I put to youbthe posabley that god is not a physical material being. But instead a mix of energy and force but intelligent with feelings.
The spiritual realm that god lives in commonly referred to as heaven can be in my opinion sumwhat proven by super string theory.

But you have not said yet if you believe in a god!!! Do you?? Because there's no point in trying to explain anything to a fool.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: M on June 10, 2017, 03:38:52
god is real he blesses me with every breath i take i love god and i love jesus my mommy says that ONE DAY I i will  grow up and die and when i die i see jesus yes and he says wow you have been a goooood boy so u are Not TO Going  to hell dont tell my mom i said hell i was just saying that i won't go there forgive me lord I'm sorry for saying that word thank you
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 10, 2017, 10:40:05
@NinjaMirage aaaand we're sliding. *Sigh* this discussion was going surprisiny well. What if I'm a "fool"? Is it gonna change my arguments?

I don't know if god is real or not. And I'm saying god as in the creator of the universe. Right now I've got more reasons to believe he is, just not how religion pictures it. But no theory I've heard of or thought of yet explains everything so I'm not ready to answer that question yet. I just don't know
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 10, 2017, 11:35:09
Then let's keep going. Admitting you don't know is the first step. What do you consider is the biggest reason that god dose not exist?

To continue with the math.
The abuility to pull energy from mater is sold science. So with enough energy it should be posable to create mater from energy.
E=mc2 m=E/c2

That is a lot of energy to produce a single atom of mater.  So where did the energy for the Big Bang come from?

In the Bible god is discredited as " abundant in dynamic energy" in other words energy in  Motion.  Isaiah 40:20  This was long long long before  Einstein ever conceived the idea.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 10, 2017, 12:21:07
What do you consider is the biggest reason that god dose not exist?

Dozens of theories, hundreds of answers. I could literally write a book on this question alone.

To continue with the math.
The abuility to pull energy from mater is sold science. So with enough energy it should be posable to create mater from energy.
E=mc2 m=E/c2

That is a lot of energy to produce a single atom of mater.  So where did the energy for the Big Bang come from?

In the Bible god is discredited as " abundant in dynamic energy" in other words energy in  Motion.  Isaiah 40:20  This was long long long before  Einstein ever conceived the idea.

Let's not dwell on fields neither of us is comfortable in. The special relativity theory goes way beyond that equation, that is in fact only the tiny tip of the massive iceberg that is the theory. And the big bang is still just a theory, hence the show's name as well. Explains a lot of things but is missing on a lot of questions as well.
Don't pull stuff you don't fully understand to the table.

But answering your question, if you could answer scientifically how and why the big bang happened you'd probably win the nobel in physics.

Also don't pull vague badly translated verses written by men. That was 3 arguments in a sentence, I didn't think I would ever get this far.
I've done some digging and it appears the most commonly accepted translations of the word in question are "might, power, strength, vigor, glory", that one only appeared after 1958. But even ignoring the obvious translation problem, it's still super vague and written by a man that thought there was nothing above the sky and the sun went around the earth. You're telling me god gave him the answer to nuclear weapons before telling him earth was actually round?
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 10, 2017, 12:51:18
you didn't awnser my question about what is the main reason you don't believe he exist?
Is it anger
Or
Selfishness?

Anger I can work with.
Selfishness I might as well stop now.
You refuse to see that regardless of what you think of the transformation problems. The fact is it was written down long before anyone could have known anything about an atom.  You must be one of the above.

You can't be angry at someone that dose not exist because you don't seem crazy to me. So if your anger you do think god exist. I can awnser any questions about god that make most atheists crazy. But you have to except the Bible is from m god. I was angry too. But to get rid of the anger you have to deside on where to look.

I have given enuph evidence by now to prove the Bible has information that was written century's before anyone could have posable known.

If it's selfishness and you don't want to except a god as existing because you don't want to feel small and week. That is something you have to deal with yourself.
To help I suggest you research just how massive the universe is. If you don't feel small then you have not gone far enough.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 10, 2017, 15:47:51
@NinjaMirage I've answered you. I don't know how else i can explain either but as i said before i wasn't expecting to change your mind anyway. Your argument is severely flawed, you didn't show how mine was flawed and then you say you showed evidence... End of discussion. At least on my part.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 10, 2017, 16:00:23
You say you have shown how mine is flawed but all  you say is that it's flawed with no proof to back it up.  The hole point to this is if you don't want to except that he is real, I can't convince you. I have already bin convinced and nothing short of God showing and saying I'm not real will convince me otherwise.

I have shared why I believe in god. You have not shared why you don't. You have not said anything that I have not had a reasonable awnser for. So your right end of discussion.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Tsunayoshi on June 10, 2017, 22:03:27
You can't solve this riddle of truth.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: m4r1us on June 11, 2017, 10:41:05
Post your opinion in a respectful manner. Hopefully a mature debate will start.
@Shivraj I'm not salty or anything but I actually want this discussion.
I'll try and counter any argument disregarding the existance of god
I would hope he isn't if I were you, I heard he has an aversion to beta cucks. Please show up at your local vet in order to be neutered.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 11, 2017, 16:10:25
You can't solve this riddle of truth.

Truth is not relative. People can see the same thing different ways but that dose not mean that subject didn't happen a spacific way.

Post your opinion in a respectful manner. Hopefully a mature debate will start.
@Shivraj I'm not salty or anything but I actually want this discussion.
I'll try and counter any argument disregarding the existance of god
I would hope he isn't if I were you, I heard he has an aversion to beta cucks. Please show up at your local vet in order to be neutered.

Actually it would be the wife of the beta cuck that he is not happy with!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Mars on June 11, 2017, 16:54:14
I would hope he isn't if I were you, I heard he has an aversion to beta cucks. Please show up at your local vet in order to be neutered.

I would say kys, but you already tried @m4r1us :/
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Leebz on June 11, 2017, 17:03:00
Post your opinion in a respectful manner. Hopefully a mature debate will start.
@Shivraj I'm not salty or anything but I actually want this discussion.
I'll try and counter any argument disregarding the existance of god
I would hope he isn't if I were you, I heard he has an aversion to beta cucks. Please show up at your local vet in order to be neutered.
Look at this ancient, has-been, degenerate clown trying to start drama on SLO again. XD

I would hope he isn't if I were you, I heard he has an aversion to beta cucks. Please show up at your local vet in order to be neutered.

I would say kys, but you already tried @m4r1us :/
LOOOOOL +Rep. Careful though, you might bring back some PTSD for the guy.

Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Diamond Lee on June 13, 2017, 01:45:34
The things you'll see on a forum dedicated to a pre-alpha Naruto role play game ...

Not trying to be cool or anything but wouldn't it be more appropriate and constructive to talk about this irl in a philosophy or theology(?) group, or even if you like arguing on the interwebs that much, on a religious debate forum or a subreddit for this (sure that exist)


but that's just my 250/50 cents on this, and that currency is worthless
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 13, 2017, 13:20:32
The things you'll see on a forum dedicated to a pre-alpha Naruto role play game ...

Not trying to be cool or anything but wouldn't it be more appropriate and constructive to talk about this irl in a philosophy or theology(?) group, or even if you like arguing on the interwebs that much, on a religious debate forum or a subreddit for this (sure that exist)


but that's just my 250/50 cents on this, and that currency is worthless

Your probably right!!! But the whole question is crazy!! There 2 choices. There is a god that designed all life. Or we evolved. Sence your odds are better at winning the lottery without ever buying a ticket( finding it or someone giving it to you) then life evolving from nothing by accident, my money is on god!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Suroshi on June 27, 2017, 06:36:23
My personal opinion is "God" as an almighty creator of all things and passer of judgement is not a true entity.. Rather a tale told to young children around fires to inspire them and teach them the difference between right and wrong or good an evil.. This lead to common minds following the same concept which opened the doors for "churches" and "miracle priest" to exploit at the time a slightly uneducated populous who have heard miraculous stories their entire lives and with the help of tricky and illusion they were over all successful..
But to the world there are many "Gods" created to illustrate personal belief systems some "Gods" good, others evil, some are neither and the rules and belief's behind these Gods all differ.. A God is a really good way to explain all the things normal human logic can not explain, we always strive to learn new things and to surpass our own essence..
Alot of people use God as a type of crutch knowing someone is always looking after your well being is a good feeling.. You can also relieve your self of problems and worries by believing God has a plan for you and will guide you through tough times.. To think the actions you make in this life will one day matter when you die, its reassuring to believe that you will one day see all lost loved ones and live in eternal peace.. As people we come to these ideas and find them comforting..
God represents many good qualities we find appeasing..Life is not perfect, but we always look for the good, and wish for a happy ending..
People believe in different Gods for their own personal reasons I respect
everyones views.. But I can not logically conclude that a God of any type has ever existed other than in the minds of men.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 27, 2017, 10:46:20
Logical proof god is real!!
Bible- Hebrew 3:4

You find a log cabin in the middle of a vast desert. Why you are in the middle of this desert is not important right now, just go with it,lol.
But you look in the cabin grateful to have shade from the hot sun and find that it has everything you need to servive, food water even cloths of all sizes!!

Would it be logical to conclude that someone built that house there. Took time and effort to move the logs need to a barren location and make the shelter.

Or dose it make more sence to you that the trees grew in to a cabin and that all inside it happens by accident?

I agree with you that man had taken advantage of other men in the name of god and used the belief of others to there own ends. But it because of men not god.

Don't be turned off of the idea of god just because men have  corrupted the message and meaning of what he has left for us!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Suroshi on June 27, 2017, 10:56:28
I just simply do not believe in the aspect of God especially the christian God..
I do not believe in the bible, or most of its containment so quoting bible verse name and numbers doesn't make much of a difference its just a book... But Im not trying to be rude and I dont mean to offend anyone if I do. Im just not a believer in fantasy, magic, or God/angels/demons/etc.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 27, 2017, 11:31:42
First not everyone that beleved god exists is under educated or gullible!!

Second here is human logic to prove a, or at least 1 god exists.

By god I refer to the creation of all things god not money love anything else humans worship as god.

 Bible Hebrew 3:4

So you come across a log cabin in the middle of a enormous desert. In side this cabin you happy to find everything you need to survive. There is food, water, and clothing of all sizes. Would you conclude that this house just appeared one day with all of the above inside it? No you would think that someone took there time to bring these materials here and construct this habitation for any would be travelers!!
You live in this house for a while exploring the desert and you find there are other houses just like this one scattered throughout the desert.

Now apply the same logic where the earth is the house and the universe is the Desert.

The Bible writer new nothing of the universe but his statement works just as well with what we know about it know as it did when he first wrote it.

I also agree with you that man has  manipulated and even extorted people that do believe in God. But that dose not change the fact that he dose exist. That evil is mans doing not gods. He has given us everything we need to not be fooled or manipulated by these false prophets and teachings. YOU have the responsibility now to not let yourself be taken advantage of.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Manuster on June 27, 2017, 12:30:02
who and what determines the laws of fisics

*dabs out religiously*
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 27, 2017, 16:39:39
I just simply do not believe in the aspect of God especially the christian God..
I do not believe in the bible, or most of its containment so quoting bible verse name and numbers doesn't make much of a difference its just a book... But Im not trying to be rude and I dont mean to offend anyone if I do. Im just not a believer in fantasy, magic, or God/angels/demons/etc.

Then I won't quote the Bible. I'll quote
Arthur C Clarke,"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I would assume by "magic" which is condemned in the Bible btw, your referring to the numerous miracles described in the Bible. These miracles in resent years have bin largely regarded as posable for some one in complete control of quantum physics. So if god exist and if he did create all things including the laws of physics then its like giving a remote control to your kide after you build a RC car.

A lot of people refuse to beleve the truth found in the Bible because it means having to except that there are power spiritual creatures out there with evil intentions.
So people don't want to see the truth.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Suroshi on June 28, 2017, 03:17:36
I dont believe the christian bible because the entire thing has been written and rewritten..and for miracles in the bible I look for other logical explanations.. for example in the book Exodus when moses went to free the enslaved israelites "Moses and Aaron appear before the pharaoh when Aaron's rod is transformed into a serpent.

The pharaoh's sorcerers are also able to transform their own rods into serpents, but Aaron's swallows them" This would detail how moses and his brother were able to perform the same "miracles" as the Egyptian sorcerers or priest..

Moses grew up as a royal member him and his brother would have been aware of the trickery, it says Aarons snake swallowed the rest as a metaphor to say "I can do what you can do but better"... Later down the line Moses parts the red sea right? Also incorrect.. in the original text the sea at which they crossed was called "Yam Suph" ..

Suph means Reed not Red.. It also stands for as an area of reeds which has dried up due to the Suez Canal.. Which means they would have easily been able to cross on foot while evading the Egyptian military through the desert.. Once they were able to reach Mt Sinai the landscape was described as glowing green..

This is the result of smelting copper weapons and armor the bible will detail he brought them there for safe passage.. Doesnt say he is arming thousands of homeless israelites.. Moses gathered the elders and he went to the top of the Mt it says..

10 And the Lord said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes 11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. 13 They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”

.. let me point out..  "limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death." Clearly they did not want ANYONE going anywhere near the MT its self.. of course as you should know this is where God is creating stone tablets called the commandments for Moses.. Moses stayed there for 40 nights, so a little longer than a month..

 In the mean time while Moses was on the Mt some of his freed israelites began worshiping a golden calf statue .. Aaron built an altar before the calf and proclaimed the next day to be a feast to the LORD. So they rose up early the next day and "offered burnt-offerings, and brought peace-offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play." (Exodus 32:6) God told Moses what the Israelites were up to back in camp, that they had turned aside quickly out of the way which God commanded them and he was going to destroy them and start a new people from Moses. Moses besought and pleaded that they should be spared (Exodus 32:11-14), and God "repented of the evil which He said He would do unto His people." Let me again point out.. "God told Moses what the Israelites were up to back in camp, that they had turned aside quickly out of the way which God commanded them and he was going to destroy them and start a new people from Moses. Moses besought and pleaded that they should be spared (Exodus 32:11-14), and God "repented of the evil which He said He would do unto His people."..

 So it seems logical to me that Moses freed a bunch of slaves and fled Egypt with thousands of people so they raided small towns on their way out and it pissed off the pharaoh <-- His "father" because it had not been long since their land was raged with plague of disease and insects..

 Pharaoh's army chased after them, Moses lead them off in to the desert put distance between them and crossed a shallow area of the river, The egpytians had to give up because they used chariots and could not cross through the thick mud.. Moses took them to a popular place where copper and bronze could be created to arm them because the whole point is to lead an army and take over the "promised land" of Canaan..

 Theres a huge gap between these two locations controlled by powerful countries and empires who arent just gonna let thousands of people cross through their land.. This is also why Joshua completely fucked over Jericho to send a message of their power... My point with all of this is this story is described with such magic and empowerment from God.. When in reality you had a country starving and dealing with mayhem than thousands of your slaves run away and form an army to take over a kingdom so they have a place to live.. No miricales.. all can be logically proven and thought out..

I was raised heavily religious as a child, my mother went to private christian and catholic schools..my first and middle name is Joshua and David.. My brother is Joseph Mark.. I know the bible well, I understand the Christian God very well.. I've read stories from the bible Ive read with my own eyes how sickening and wrathful "God" can be to the point where God regretted creating humans, it is quoted that we are "born with evil" in our hearts...So even if this God is true and real, he is no "God" of mine..

Further more to support the idea of God would support the idea of Hell.. Hell mind you was a fictional place created by Dante Alighieri a comedian, poet and writer in the 14th-century.. Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the "realm ... of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen". As an allegory, the Divine Comedy represents the journey of the soul toward God, with the Inferno describing the recognition and rejection of sin.. This was a horror story created about his own idea of how God would punish sinners.. Which was later adopted into Christianity as a legitimate place of punishment. Another very interesting fact is that Jesus is depicted in the bible as the morning star, the bringer of dawn, an illuminated one.. An interesting fact is "Lucifer" is called the exact same thing   "Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/;[1][2][3] LOO-sif-ər) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah (Isaiah 14:12). The Vulgate translation uses the Latin word lucifer, but with a lower-case initial.[4] The Hebrew word, transliterated Hêlêl[5] or Heylel (pron. as HAY-lale),[6] occurs once in the Hebrew Bible[5] and according to the KJV-based Strong's Concordance means "shining one, light-bearer".[6] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[7][8][9][10][11] (heōsphoros),[12][13][14] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[15] The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[16] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[17][18] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[19]" ..

It is also a known fact that when Jesus was crucified for "falsely" claiming to be God, the "Messiah" he began his distant in to hell where he saved the prophets and Broke Open the gates of "Hell" which is a story added after Dantes Inferno.. I find it funny how Jesus claimed to be Messiah and the son of God and was known as the morning star, yet the Anti-Christ is also someone who is suppose to resemble the son of God..Because to me, from my understanding Jesus and Lucifer are the same..Which makes sense why God is such a angry wrathful God.

Like I've said I respect everyones point of view there are no right or wrongs only opinions.



I do not credit the bible or any man made text to be proof of a God.. I also do not believe God is a being or entity I believe more or less an extremely rare series of events unfolded as we explore space we can see how lucky this universe actually is it hangs perfectly with in balance of expansion and contraction think of this as the most rare event to ever happen.. so much so that not all universes can survive in this balance and its also believed that it took eons of time to get the balance correct in this one little area..I believe if there was a creator more things would be this perfect, why not all universes having balance, why not life more common, why not things more clear..

I basically believe in a more radical theory than God.. Think of our universe and all universes and all things in space as billions of tiny soap bubbles all touching one another, these bubbles are made of incredible energy its the fabric of darkmatter now i believe some bubbles can form empty but small holes can interconnect them to one another.. So if a small hole is created and it sucks energy through it think of a black hole, and on the other side of this black whole in a differnt universe that we our selfs can not interact with a white hole forms, white holes appear randomly in space and they spew out mega tons of raw energy.. I believe when a black hole forms a corresponding white hole forms filling up a new bubble, now all of these billions and gazillions bubbles all have holes that open and close sucking and spewing energy all breathing as one.. all energy being broken down and recreated each time an empty bubble is filled for the first time it would be like a big bang this is why we can tell the difference in age by how far back in to space we go.. So in your mind picture countless of universes and different dimensions as kakakabillions of bubbles all circulating raw energy from one to another constantly createing and ending at the same time us being so small on this scale see the time frame as being eons and eons of time but when really this could be happening extremely quickly packing unbelievable amounts of energy that we are all apart of. I also believe in some type of binary code system made up of time little vibrations that vibrate in ways we can not detect them, different vibrations are like different numbers in code resulting in different outcomes, some vibrations stay vibrateing a certian way so things are always recreated the same from the DNA blueprints when the vibration slightly changes it causes deformities, unexplained phenomenons, and bio mutation in gene codes.. All of these tiny vibrations all share common mini vibrations that link everything in existence together these mini vibrations are less complex and simple stay the same linking a chain together. 



So the essence of energy as in what everything is created from breaks back down in to its more pure state of energy as a piece of vibrating code which is used to constantly recycle its self.. Think of reproduction just on a galactic scale.
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Blazefp on June 28, 2017, 12:45:51
@Suroshi mate, agree with your original post entirely, didn't read all of your last post though, just don't waste your time trying to argue with ninja here, he only uses logic when it suits his views and takes pieces of information he doesn't fully understand and uses it as absolute truth when they fit one of his views. Check the previous 2 pages. I'm out
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: NinjaMirage on June 28, 2017, 15:33:14
I am impressed with this post!! Your the first person to actually give somthing of yourself when arguing your case against the Bible. Your are very knowledgeable about the Bible!! I'll admit there are a few things in here I have never heard of and will look in to. But until then let me comment on a few things!!
for example in the book Exodus when moses went to free the enslaved israelites "Moses and Aaron appear before the pharaoh when Aaron's rod is transformed into a serpent.

The pharaoh's sorcerers are also able to transform their own rods into serpents, but Aaron's swallows them" This would detail how moses and his brother were able to perform the same "miracles" as the Egyptian sorcerers or priest..

Moses grew up as a royal member him and his brother would have been aware of the trickery, it says Aarons snake swallowed the rest as a metaphor to say "I can do what you can do but better"...

This is 100% accurate humans here able to copy what Aaron was able to do with gods help. But you skipped over the 10 pledges... why?  Pharaoh  Believed he was a god, the 10 pledges flew in the face of the gods of Egypt. No one had more reason to doubt and question the god of the Bible the. Pharaoh and even he could not ignore the fact that something or some one was protecting these slaves!!

Don't pick and choose passages from the Bible to support your beliefs. That's how we end up with hell, the immortal soul, and the trinity doctrine. But personally I would rather people like you, that reason away parts of the Bible to disprove everything then people that misuses parts of the Bible to convert people to there religion for financial gain!!

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Later down the line Moses parts the red sea right? Also incorrect.. in the original text the sea at which they crossed was called "Yam Suph" ..

Suph means Reed not Red.. It also stands for as an area of reeds which has dried up due to the Suez Canal.. Which means they would have easily been able to cross on foot while evading the Egyptian military through the desert..
This is a new one on me and thank you for bringing it to my attention. I always question my beliefs!!! If there is somthing wether it be scientific or translation related that effects my beliefs I always investigate. It's how I keep myself from being influenced by the above mentioned religious groups.
A lot after this is the reasoning away of the Bible so like I said I'm fine with that!! At least the only person your convincing is yourself!!
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I was raised heavily religious as a child, my mother went to private christian and catholic schools..my first and middle name is Joshua and David.. My brother is Joseph Mark.. I know the bible well, I understand the Christian God very well.. I've read stories from the bible Ive read with my own eyes how sickening and wrathful "God" can be to the point where God regretted creating humans, it is quoted that we are "born with evil" in our hearts...So even if this God is true and real, he is no "God" of mine..
But not created in evil!!! Evil is a choice!!
You at least offer something of your self in your argument unlike others that have tried to refute the Bible. I don't know how old you are of if you have kids yourself. But even if you don't How do you think you would feel if you gave life to your children, cared for them, provided everything they could ever need!! Only to have them disobey you on something of universal importance. Then not just them but your grand children and great grandchildren keep doing the same thing.im pretty sure you would be angry too.
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Further more to support the idea of God would support the idea of Hell.. Hell mind you was a fictional place created by Dante Alighieri a comedian, poet and writer in the 14th-century.. Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the "realm ... of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen". As an allegory, the Divine Comedy represents the journey of the soul toward God, with the Inferno describing the recognition and rejection of sin.. This was a horror story created about his own idea of how God would punish sinners.. Which was later adopted into Christianity as a legitimate place of punishment. Another very interesting fact is that Jesus is depicted in the bible as the morning star, the bringer of dawn, an illuminated one.. An interesting fact is "Lucifer" is called the exact same thing   "Lucifer (/ˈluːsɪfər/;[1][2][3] LOO-sif-ər) is the King James Version rendering of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל in Isaiah (Isaiah 14:12). The Vulgate translation uses the Latin word lucifer, but with a lower-case initial.[4] The Hebrew word, transliterated Hêlêl[5] or Heylel (pron. as HAY-lale),[6] occurs once in the Hebrew Bible[5] and according to the KJV-based Strong's Concordance means "shining one, light-bearer".[6] The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as ἑωσφόρος[7][8][9][10][11] (heōsphoros),[12][13][14] a name, literally "bringer of dawn", for the morning star.[15] The word Lucifer is taken from the Latin Vulgate,[16] which translates הֵילֵל as lucifer,[17][18] meaning "the morning star, the planet Venus", or, as an adjective, "light-bringing".[19]" ..
Again can't pick and choose!! Eather use the whole bible to explain somthing or don't use it. Jews don't have an afterlife.
They were thought that death is the wage of sin, And that the soul that sins dies. So there must be some other explanation for the use of the word hell or hades in Greek and Sheol in Hebrew.
Satan was described as the above. Your right but that is because he was an angel first!! Yes that's right angels have free will. They can choose to worship god just like we can.
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It is also a known fact that when Jesus was crucified for "falsely" claiming to be God, the "Messiah" he began his distant in to hell where he saved the prophets and Broke Open the gates of "Hell" which is a story added after Dantes Inferno.. I find it funny how Jesus claimed to be Messiah and the son of God and was known as the morning star, yet the Anti-Christ is also someone who is suppose to resemble the son of God..Because to me, from my understanding Jesus and Lucifer are the same..Which makes sense why God is such a angry wrathful God.
I deal with the Bible not works of fiction. There are numerous other holy writings to chose from. I have proven to my self that the Bible is the only one that has the internal consistency and logical progression of human life here on earth, that can be  corroborated by scientific and historical evidence.

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I do not credit the bible or any man made text to be proof of a God.. I also do not believe God is a being or entity I believe more or less an extremely rare series of events unfolded as we explore space we can see how lucky this universe actually is it hangs perfectly with in balance of expansion and contraction think of this as the most rare event to ever happen.. so much so that not all universes can survive in this balance and its also believed that it took eons of time to get the balance correct in this one little area..I believe if there was a creator more things would be this perfect, why not all universes having balance, why not life more common, why not things more clear..
I'm glad you realize just how unlikely it is that the universe with its physical laws and the earth with its unique qualities to sustain life, could have happens by chance. If there is no god then luck dose not begin to discribe the odds we beat just by are existence.
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I basically believe in a more radical theory than God.. Think of our universe and all universes and all things in space as billions of tiny soap bubbles all touching one another, these bubbles are made of incredible energy its the fabric of darkmatter now i believe some bubbles can form empty but small holes can interconnect them to one another.. So if a small hole is created and it sucks energy through it think of a black hole, and on the other side of this black whole in a differnt universe that we our selfs can not interact with a white hole forms, white holes appear randomly in space and they spew out mega tons of raw energy.. I believe when a black hole forms a corresponding white hole forms filling up a new bubble, now all of these billions and gazillions bubbles all have holes that open and close sucking and spewing energy all breathing as one.. all energy being broken down and recreated each time an empty bubble is filled for the first time it would be like a big bang this is why we can tell the difference in age by how far back in to space we go.. So in your mind picture countless of universes and different dimensions as kakakabillions of bubbles all circulating raw energy from one to another constantly createing and ending at the same time us being so small on this scale see the time frame as being eons and eons of time but when really this could be happening extremely quickly packing unbelievable amounts of energy that we are all apart of. I also believe in some type of binary code system made up of time little vibrations that vibrate in ways we can not detect them, different vibrations are like different numbers in code resulting in different outcomes, some vibrations stay vibrateing a certian way so things are always recreated the same from the DNA blueprints when the vibration slightly changes it causes deformities, unexplained phenomenons, and bio mutation in gene codes.. All of these tiny vibrations all share common mini vibrations that link everything in existence together these mini vibrations are less complex and simple stay the same linking a chain together. 



So the essence of energy as in what everything is created from breaks back down in to its more pure state of energy as a piece of vibrating code which is used to constantly recycle its self.. Think of reproduction just on a galactic scale.

If this satisfies your questions about life the universe and death then all the more power to you!! But it's not enough for me! I am going to look in to the red-reed translation though. Thanks for that!!
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Naizen on June 29, 2017, 05:21:02
Jeremiah 9:5-9
Friend deceives friend, and no one speaks the truth. They have taught their tongues to lie; they weary themselves with sinning. You live in the midst of deception; in their deceit they refuse to acknowledge me,” declares the LORD. Therefore this is what the LORD Almighty says: “See, I will refine and test them, for what else can I do because of the sin of my people?  Their tongue is a deadly arrow; it speaks deceitfully. With their mouths they all speak cordially to their neighbors, but in their hearts they set traps for them. Should I not punish them for this?” declares the LORD. “Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?”
Title: Re: Is God real
Post by: Rasull on June 25, 2019, 09:04:39
Yes, Of course!