Medical ninjas combat effectiveness.

[Manuster]

Lmao ELO doesn't affect your abilities as a ninja, the jutsu you learn or your skills. There is, and won't be any "ELO requirement" for anything EXCEPT ranking up. That is the ONLY thing ELO is used for, and even then the choice of ranking up is purely optional.


Furthermore, is this thread asking whether or not medical ninja will be considered equally in the ELO system? Or is it asking whether medical ninja will ge able to function as combat only shinobi?

[NinjaMirage]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the reason for the ELO system. Especially if skills are included in Jutsu. If ELO has only the purpose of evaluating the skill of the player (not character)you come up against then There is no problem.

However as soon as you start Ranking Jutsu by the players skill and not character skill... now your ELO is no longer about player ability but about your characters skill and ELO was not designed for that.

Will medical ninjutsu specialists be combat effective on there own 1v1? That is the main question and to address ways for this to happen.

Because in a ELO ranking system the above question is the only thing that matters if a medical ninja is going to have a chance in hell at making jonin rank or higher.

However for team play medical ninja would be overpowered if they could do as much damage as other skill trees and still heal the team.

This logically leads to a discussion of HOW balance in skills will be achieved?

And if ELO is only for ranking up to chunin or jonin or higher what is the point of ranking up?

The only use it would be is in determining the skill of the player you ran across.
However that still dose not mean that they have high level jutsu... someone that just joined the game and is really good at it could have a chunin or higher ELO and only genin skills on there character.

[Yamasukage]

I think there is a lot of confusion about the reason for the ELO system. Especially if skills are included in Jutsu. If ELO has only the purpose of evaluating the skill of the player (not character)you come up against then There is no problem.

However as soon as you start Ranking Jutsu by the players skill and not character skill... now your ELO is no longer about player ability but about your characters skill and ELO was not designed for that.

Will medical ninjutsu specialists be combat effective on there own 1v1? That is the main question and to address ways for this to happen.

Because in a ELO ranking system the above question is the only thing that matters if a medical ninja is going to have a chance in hell at making jonin rank or higher.

However for team play medical ninja would be overpowered if they could do as much damage as other skill trees and still heal the team.

This logically leads to a discussion of HOW balance in skills will be achieved?

And if ELO is only for ranking up to chunin or jonin or higher what is the point of ranking up?

The only use it would be is in determining the skill of the player you ran across.
However that still dose not mean that they have high level jutsu... someone that just joined the game and is really good at it could have a chunin or higher ELO and only genin skills on there character.

thats why i suggested that the ELO system should be diverse and cater for all forms of combat w.g if beating a shinobi in battle gathers ELO then healing a shinobi should gain ELO

[NinjaMirage]

ELO is a system that can not be changed like that. ELO is a score. It's a numarical representation of skill. The more you play the more acurate the score. Thay would have to invent a new kind of ELO to do what your suggested.


If ELO is going to work the way it is designed to. Medical ninja need to be just as combat effective in a one on one fight as any other tree.

For this to happen medical ninja skills should be decided in to 3 sections with limited acsess to all 3.

Personal healing: consisting of skills to heal them self of damage effects and poisons.

Team healing: consisting of skills to heal others

Medical damage: consisting of skills with dot effects such as pressure points poisons and
Stamina and chakra draining effects

With the abuility to sap your opponent strength
And use it to heal your self then the dot will balance out the damage. However to get all 3 effects you should have to specialize in medical ninjutsu tree.

[Diamond Lee]

Sorry to be annoying but it just bugs me that everyone keeps saying ELO. Its actualy Elo. Its not an acronym.

Spoiler: show

sorry sorry for being a grammar nazi for this pls no kill me </3

[Yamasukage]

Sorry to be annoying but it just bugs me that everyone keeps saying ELO. Its actualy Elo. Its not an acronym.

Spoiler: show

sorry sorry for being a grammar nazi for this pls no kill me </3

This guy XD

[Tsunayoshi]

Sorry to be annoying but it just bugs me that everyone keeps saying ELO. Its actualy Elo. Its not an acronym.

Spoiler: show

sorry sorry for being a grammar nazi for this pls no kill me </3

Tfw you try to be a grammar nazi but your grammar is wrong as well.

[StriderOtaku]

ELO is a system that can not be changed like that. ELO is a score. It's a numarical representation of skill. The more you play the more acurate the score. Thay would have to invent a new kind of ELO to do what your suggested.


If ELO is going to work the way it is designed to. Medical ninja need to be just as combat effective in a one on one fight as any other tree.

For this to happen medical ninja skills should be decided in to 3 sections with limited acsess to all 3.

Personal healing: consisting of skills to heal them self of damage effects and poisons.

Team healing: consisting of skills to heal others

Medical damage: consisting of skills with dot effects such as pressure points poisons and
Stamina and chakra draining effects

With the abuility to sap your opponent strength
And use it to heal your self then the dot will balance out the damage. However to get all 3 effects you should have to specialize in medical ninjutsu tree.

I like this idea, explain a bit more tho..how will this not be OP?

[NinjaMirage]

its based on the idea that all trees are available but not all are masterable.

none of the above skills alone are all that powerful by them self, and could have uses in other fields like taijutsu or ninjutsu

but if you want to specialize in a skill set then you wont have access to all other trees only the tree your in.

so specialize in one tree or customize from all trees.

if you specialize you should get a bump in efficiency to the dominant resource... i.e chakra or stamina

this is so being able to do everthing is not overpowered to one specialty.

[StriderOtaku]

its based on the idea that all trees are available but not all are masterable.

none of the above skills alone are all that powerful by them self, and could have uses in other fields like taijutsu or ninjutsu

but if you want to specialize in a skill set then you wont have access to all other trees only the tree your in.

so specialize in one tree or customize from all trees.

if you specialize you should get a bump in efficiency to the dominant resource... i.e chakra or stamina

this is so being able to do everything is not overpowered to one specialty.

I see, so they can choose to specialize in one whilst still being able to master combat as well and thus not affect their playing style or they could be a *jack of all trades* kind of player without actually mastering any. This way medical ninjutsu would be a sort of augmentation, like a simple fire style ninjutsu that is still effective while not taking away from the player's combat effectiveness nor making them invincible in PvP.

[NinjaMirage]

Essentially however this would mean all trees would need to be devided up this way. But is that a downside??

[StriderOtaku]

Essentially however this would mean all trees would need to be devided up this way. But is that a downside??

I'm not sure. It could be a downside considering that with medical jutsu this division has to be done for reasons we have already stated but with other jutsu this would simply be limiting the amount of skill one could attain in their desired area of expertise and could make for some very rigid gameplay seeing as the variety will be taken away i.e you either know long range ninjutsu well for example or you know short range well or you simply aren't proficient in any but can perform both. This will make everybody no matter the techniques, jutsus or chakra nature(s) all fall into 3 groups which in my opinion is rigid,
There should be that element of surprise, and that individual skill where you could meet a player and be shocked at the vast amount of justsu, skill and techniques at their disposal because they have been able to master vast techniques without limitation, like a universe where your only limiter is to a very great extent yourself and not tree division.

[NinjaMirage]

this is why a realistic stat system is so important... stats govern everything from what you can learn to how powerful your damage can become.

But what you want can still be achieved within a realistic stat system.

So let's sat you specialize in medical ninjutsu.
To matster that tree you would need a X amount of intelligence stat. But you could still have the bass stat levels of strangth and others needed to learn basic taijutsu, Kenjutsu or ninjutsu.

So jutsu like say Yoroi Akadō( the guy that fought sauska in the preliminary rounds of the chunin exams) that absorbed sauska's chakra.
This would require a high level skill in the medical tree, advance chakra control, and basic taijutsu skills.

Some skills could even require mid level skills from all trees making it off limits to specialized ninja.

However there has to be a cap to how many skills a ninja can learn... thereby limiting the jutsu he can learn. I think that you should have full control over the skills you learn. Also have the abuility to forget skills and learn new ones.

This is also fairly realistic... you know the saying "if you don't use it you loose it"

[Diamond Lee]

I believe theee should not be a cap for skills... take Hashirama, Tobirama, Orochimaru,or Kakashi for example. These are just a few dudes that mastered many chakra natures and a lot the jutsu. I know Kakashi had the sharingan, but it is unarguable that even without it he would have mastered a ton of jutsu. When he didn't have it he already knew lightning style and earth style jutsu... the only limit to how many jutsu should be learn imo is the skill and grinding that the ninja has done. Yes, I believe there should be quite a bit of Grinding in the full SLO. Almost all of the great ninja trained relentlessly over and over the same thing. Look at when Naruto learnt the rasenshuriken. Or Rock Lees whole shinobi career. so, in conclusion, I think there should be no limit. If you train hard enough, you can do it. This embodies a shinobi's way in my opinion.

Sorry 4 going off topic.

[NinjaMirage]

@Diamond Lee @StriderOtaku
All of them had a weekness something they were not good at.
Hashirama had no genjutsu(at least in the anima-manga he has the darkness jutsu that Tonirama had but they changed it for this exact reason)
Tobirama had no healing
Same with orochimaru
Kakashi as well.

The only characters exempt from that were not human, or at least not fully human. Or were jinchuriki.

I agree grinding out skills is important to get better.. but the game will be more fun if it remains skill based... meaning grinding out skills and learning every jutsu should not garentee a victory over some one that dose not.
If someone hones there skills to use only a few jutsu and uses them well and strategically, they should be able to defeat some one that grinds out skills but never practices there jutsu.

So a smart player would decide what skills he needs for his desired jutsu and practice using that jutsu really well, then learn skills for jutsu to complete that style of jutsu. Then devide his time between grinding out skills for new jutsu and practicing integrating the new jutsu in to his fighting style.


If you specialize in ninjutsu I think it could be possible to use all natures but this is not what vreg wants. But limiting natures is not enough to balance combat in my opinion.
If you can master everything then it no longer matters if you go up against a nature your week against. Switch to taijutsu/Kenjutsu, using genjutsu and medical ninjutsu to support. Now the jack of all trades style guys would still be able to imploy this tactic because they would rely on there skill as a player to overcome any differences in character skills.

but maybe what we should do alowe people to master 2 trees of a shaired skill set meaning chakra or stamina.

So ninjutsu/medical or taijutsu/kenjutsu
And exclude any other than basic skills in others

Or

Spcilize in one with midlevels in all others

Or

Advanced levels in all.

Or instead of a cap to skills we put a realistic limmet on stat totals- with each sharing a pool of points with another stat.
For example let's say each stat pair has a total of 200 points between them.
Intelligence/constitution
Dexterity/strength
Imagination/health(not sure what else it could be maybe stamina)
By evenly distributing points and training  each to say 150 you chould open up advanced skills in everything.
If you skew your stats to a spicific specialty
You could master some trees and be week in others.