Chakra=skills, stamina=stats system

[NinjaMirage]

I have some ideas of how to set up chakra and stamina  separate values.

So what I'm suggesting is still using skills and Experiance to make up the sum total of all your chakra.

SP+Exp= chakra total
&
Stat+Exp= stamina total

Sence your stats points represent the charicters physical abuilitys and limitations for the game
It should be the foundation for your total stamina

Sence your skill points represents what you know- it should be the foundation for your chakra

I'm using Experiance points in there so we can adjust how much chakra and stamina we want and still make skill points and stats values that will work.

This is juts the start of my ideas but I think this will fit better with what @Vreg has in mind.


So when you train chakra control
What your saying is your using your knowlage and Experiance better
so using the sum from above
Chakra x 1.1 rank 1
Chakra x 1.2 rank 2
And so on untill you can double the total chakra
 
If you train in advanced chakra control
It will reduce the cost the Jutsu is programed with.
So if a Jutsu takes 100 chakra
Rank 1 .9x 100= 90 chakra
This is alittle simpler and get the same effect as my other system it's just happening at the charicter and Jutsu rather then all in charicter.

[Reminance]

You could make one big thread with all of your suggestions, it's easier to look at it all then.

[NinjaMirage]

You could make one big thread with all of your suggestions, it's easier to look at it all then.

I started to do this in my other thread but I decided to keep them sepret so the community and myself don't get the 2 confused. My ideas for this system differ greatly. Because of how this system will work we can only increase the pools of chakra and stamina and reduce the chakra and stamina cost of Jutsu. There sepret skills and not combined in to one system.

Edit: but because there sepret... I think it's going to be more difficult to make it balanced between chakra and stamina... Just my prediction.

[NinjaMirage]

So I think I will start with stamina- because this system is vastly different from what I perposes in the other thread.

Comon stats
Strangth
Stamina (st)
Constitution
Dexterity
Intelagence
Imagination

I think these should be the stats we have for SLO!!! There all pritty self explanatory.

This may be alittle confusing because there is a stamina stat and stamina as a system so I will wright (st) next to it if I'm talking about the stat.
And again any values assigned to stats here are only for the perposes of a example and testing will be needed to determine final values.

So instead of stamina being a set value you can train to regenerate and learn abuilitys to reduce  cost and temporarily increase the value-

Now I'm suggesting that it simply be a pool of your stats excluding stamina(St) and Experiance. Stats should still be on a human level....

So
Strength.      200   (Think pounds)
Constitution    10 (health regen points per min.)
Dexterity.     100 ( effects size of targeing syst)
Intelagence. 160 (think IQ)
Imagination.  80 (Realy only used in genjutsu)
                 +
stamina Exp. 550
------------------------------------
Stamina pool 1000
( these are not the only things these stats may effect but fo the perposes of explaining why I'm doing things in this system there what matter)

Stamina

Your Stamina (St) stat will governor stamina pools regen rate  similar to my other system.

So if stamina (St) is 20 you get 20 fast regens when your out of stamina (St) your stats drain with your exp untill you can't move.
Each time your pool regens a # of point/points is subtracted from your stats that will not regen untill you eat. Your stamina(St) likewise will not regenerat untill you eat.

As you can see if your stats are used to make up a portion- not sure how much yet- of your total stamina as you use up stamina you will not do as much damage with your hits, it will get harder to target some one , your genjutsu will be less effective,you will not be able to heal as fast. In short-  fatigue juts like the other system.

Edit: however I was thinking it would not make sence for points to be subtracted evenly from all stats every time stamina regenerate... For instence.. Say you used up your fist pool of stamina dodging, blocking and and throwing kuni to deflect attacks.
It would not make sence for the strength of your offense to suffer for mostly defensive actions- with the effects listed above mainly dexterity and constitution should be affected.
For  fatigue to seem realistic a registry of actions with stat cost would need to be implemented so that only the stats used are affected after regen.

[NinjaMirage]

in thinking about using abuilitys to in crease your chakra and stamina pools I have hit a snag with this system and have decided that the Experiance needed for both systems must be devided in to stamina and chakra
So if your training in walk on water somthing requires both then you will get +1 and +1
So you have:
Stamina exp.   +1
Chakra exp.    +1

This is nessessary so you can have abuilitys that use stamina exp to increase chakra and chakra exp to increase stamina, with out adversely effecting stats or skills.

[NinjaMirage]

I want to take a min. And go on a side point from stamina right now and talk about the stat and brake down what they could govern.

imagination

I originally put this in to give us a way to train to use better genjutsu... I don't want to make it useless for everyone else.. So I perposes some combinations of Jutsu's requires a set imagination stat.
For example say you have mastered the substation Jutsu- a purely defensive Jutsu, if you have a high enough imagination stat
And have the skills in paper bombs, you should unlock a Easter egg that allows you to put paper bombs on your  substituted object/log what ever...

Well call these secret  techniques or hidden arts- somthing like that.

I suggest a table of Jutsu on x and abuilitys on Y be mad up with the hidden art and imagination stat required to unlock it at the intersection point.

As soon as you know both the abuility and the Jutsu- and have the nessessary imagination the hidden art appears in a sub categories of the Jutsu scroll that you can  assign a hot key to activate or deactivate.

However I suggest only one hidden art be allowed active at a time.

Imagination could also govern what crafting scymatics you can use...crafting a claymore of senbon to use in a substation for example,
Would take a high imagination stat where as a scymatics of crafting a smoke bomb would take a much lower imagination stat.

This of course would work for any system using a Imagination stat.

[NinjaMirage]

intelligence

There are 3 things I can think of this should effect.

1 what type of trees you can learn
2 how many skills you can learn
3 the crafting abuilitys of your charicter

1 trees:
Taijutsu 1-max
As guy and Lee are evidence of intelligence plays little part in Taijutsu. Any score in intelagence above zero should alow access to the Taijutsu tree

Ninja arts( crafting tree #3 above) 50-max
Being able to craft weapons and explosives out of ordinary everyday objects and poisons from animals and plants, could require little or extremely high amounts of intelligence, but we can all agree that it takes more then Taijutsu.

Bukijutsu 50-max.
Bukijutsu requires understanding of different forms of wepoen  techniques , blocking types( Parry,disarm,ex)and offensive types(Jutsu)
The more intelligent a Bukijutsu user is the more weapons and more offensive and defensive abuilitys they should acquire.

Fuinjutsu 75-max
Fuinjutsu is the ability to seal things away in objects. These objects often have elements that assist with this such as chakra paper or metal.
A basic understanding of chakra is all that should be required for Fuinjutsu users.

Ninjutsu 100-max
Ninjutsu requires a graeter understanding of chakra then Fuinjutsu because there created from your own mind and body, with no aid from scrolls or wepoens. Again intelagence should effect the number of Jutsu you can learn 

Genjutsu 120- max
Genjutsu requires even greater understanding of the chakra network and biological effects chakra has on a target. Intelagence effets the number of Jutsu you can learn.

Medical tree 100- max
At lower levels of intelligence you should be able to use bandages and first add kits with out the aid of chakra. An intelligence level of 130 or higher should be needed to learn chakra assisted healing Jutsu. These Jutsu would require all the knowledge of a genjutsu user as well as medical knowledge of cell regeneration and the extreamly difficult levels of chakra controle.

2 skills the higher your intelagence stat the more skills you can learn affecting the number of Jutsu you can use.

An interesting side note I found

Koko the  gorilla  In San Francisco zoo has an IQ of 95... By these values a ninja gorilla could use Taijutsu- Fuinjutsu with ninjutsu just out of reach... Ninja Dolphins and dragons should be among ones that could use ninjutsu. If ninja animals are ever introduces( FYI for new people as of now there will be no intelligent animals in game like in naruto)

(All these ideas are the same for ether system I have made)

dexterity

There are several things this should effect

For battle
Your evasion speed and your targeting redial

For crafting
The  Percision necessary for a scymatics.

think of dexterity as a % if you have 100 you have the maximum targeting and evation abuility, and the most percision nessessary for delicate crafting tools and explosives.

This makes it easy to adjust the targeting to be able to pin point a spot on your target and maybe even have a abuility built on a zoom in the Bukijutsu Jutsu tree built on dexterity.

Constitution

So constitution as I am imagining it will be the basses for damage reduction and hp recovery

This I think should be the traid off to intelligence if you have high intelligence you will be able to learn medical ninjutsu that will help you heal and heal others (Sakura). If you have high constitution you will be able to recover from damage quicker then others and take less damage from physical attacks(naruto)

In the example above in previous posts I left constitution at 10 because 160 is genius levels of intelligence (160 was Albert Einstein's IQ)

So I can think of 2 ways to make these effects work ether constitution will effect the amount of hp your charicter has or reduce the damage you take from attacks
Personally I think it should be the later because it will be easer to have a smaller number that effects both incoming damage and hit point regen. But I'll leave it up to the dev team; if they even like the idea.


And final there is strength

Strength

This will govern the power of your attacks and the amount of weight you can carry as Well as some impact on movements and for lack of a better word feats. Pritty  Standard stuff Realy for a MMOARPG.

[Manuster]

I love the fact that you've got fatigue in there too. But if eating replenishes our stats, then how do we increase the cap?

Or is the point that the cap cannot be increased (human limits and all) and rather, we become more efficient in how we utilise these stats?

[NinjaMirage]

The second one... At the start of the game you may not have max stat point yet... Training  as high as humanly posable will max each stat. then learning skills and abuilitys to increase how far those stats go in battle. And some skills and Jutsu may temporarily increase the totals like the 8 inner gates dose- using chakra experience to increase your stats of strength stamina(st) and constitution- but with physically crippling side effects afterwards.

But as I said I think constitution And intelligence should only be one or the other or some combination of the two. Maybe your only allowed 200 points to share between them.

[NinjaMirage]

Ok so now we can talk about chakra for a little bit

chakra

So as stated earlier chakra pool should be mad up of the sum total of all skill points and chakra experience.

Unlike stamina you can not reduce the skill point like you can with stats because  fatigue dose not effect knowledge in the same way as physical abuility. This meens all you have is a chakra bar... Basicly what we have now..

With this system though skills like chakra controle will only give you the abuility to lean feats like walk up walls or on water at low levels and at higher levels use change in form skill to learn new Jutsu more easily.
In terms of skills and abuilitys
Skill.                      Abuility
Chakra control 1     Walk up walls
Chakra control 2.    Walk on water
Charka control 3.    learn skill nature change
                             Learn skill form change

Nature change 2     Learn both nature changes

Form change 1-20   Every new chakra form Jutsu you learn will require a new form change
However all forms can use multiple nature's
Take earth dome- the change in form could be the same as a water prison Jutsu requiring only 1 change in form and 2 changes in nature to  execute both

This is the same as my other system except unlike my other system the amount of chakra you possess and can use and regenerat is not effected by this except by the points added in skills up to 29 chakra- chakra experience will make up the difference hopefully to get the same effect. Or chakra control skills can have a  multiplier that gradually increases the skills and Experiance as mentioned in the beginning of this thread

So when you train chakra control
What your saying is your using your knowlage and Experiance better
so using the sum from above
Chakra x 1.1 rank 1
Chakra x 1.2 rank 2
And so on untill you can double the total chakra
 

Orignaly in my other system the chakra you had was basicly split up in to 10 parts at your highest level of chakra controle.
And after you used up that chakra you needed to sleep to replenish it.

With one big chakra pool there are only 2 things we can do
Try some form of chakra regen where each level of chakra control skill gives you one chakra regen  until you get 10 from advanced chakra control skills. After you use up your chakra regens you must sleep to replenish your regens. The down side to this is there is no drain on your stats for replenishing your chakra like my other system did.

The other way is:

Some kind of chakra regen system that pulls from your stats.
I'm not too sure what stat chakra regen should be bassed on... Maybe it should be your (stamina (st)+ intelligence)should give you the chakra regen per sec.
Taking the stats from earlier that would give you 20+160=180 chakra a second and you must regen this yourself.(hold a button to charge) Each time using this regen stamina point/points are deducted from your stats. This will also have an affect on how much chakra is generated a second the next time.
stamina and intelligence  are the closest stats to PE and SE I can think of. If some one has a better idea for chakra regen I'm all ears.

Some skill like advanced chakra control or chakra regen skill could govern how much of your stamina (St)is used to regen chakra.

[NinjaMirage]

In this system skills will need to be devided in to 2  categorys...
 
Character skills
These will act as balancing elements
stamina(st) -taijutsu
Chakra regen/efficiency -ninjutsu
Imagination  skills -genjutsu

Feat skills
These will all be governed bay 1 or more stats
That are nessessary for Performing Jutsu;
Chakra control,
   Focuse
   Power
   change in form,
   change in nature.
   Combined nature


Research;
Biochem
Anatomy
Pharmacology
Botany.
Fencing/kendo
World geography

Crafting;
Puppets
Explosevs
Wepoens

 Etc.





 

[thearmedshadow]

i like the concept 

[NinjaMirage]

Thanks... It was not easy trying to agust to the idea of stamina being completely sepret from chakra. But I think this fits better what Vreg's  vision of skills, stamina,and chakra. This accomplishes most of what I would like to see... I think my other system dose it better even though it's more complex. But complexity can offer a lot more options in training and charicter development. Personally I think growth with this system is going to be too in your face and not as  subtle as my other system. But it will do the job.

[thearmedshadow]

lets hope the devs notice this

[NinjaMirage]

Casting Jutsu's & Neutral Natures

So I started thinking about this because it eternal eyes brought up the problems with the resangon in the current build.

I made a small summery of the idea in the suggestions 1.0.8 thread but thought I should explain everything here because it ties in to the feats associated with chakra control.

to start with I would like to address the chakra natures it's obvious everyone knows how this works

Week        Nature       Strong
Water.       Fire           Wind
   Fire           Wind.        Lightning
Wind.        Lightning   Earth
Lightning   Earth.        Water
Earth.        Water.       Fire
(Sorry if there not quite lined up)But what happens when  a neutral nature hits an elemental nature.

There are a few things to consider in desiding the outcome of to Jutsu like this
And it mainly has to do with the effect the change in form will have, the focus needed to perform the change in form , and power of the chakra used in the change in form.

Why is the rasangon ranked higher in power and difficulty then chidori an elemental Jutsu???
The focus and power needed to create the chakra form is much more intense for the caster of the resangon then for the chidori.
The jutsus  both move chakra out of the body to the hand but but the rasangon dose so with more power then the chidori.so

the question becomes how to get this effect in game?

The awnser is already in game the number hand signs!!

Hand signs should corisponrd to the 5 things that make up Jutsu
Focuse
Power
Jutsu effect
Change in nature
Nature combinations

Your primary nature will determine the order the numbers are cast in.
This is so more Jutsu can be used with the same numbers and totals 25 Jutsu with the same numbers to be exact.

The totals of the numbers will determan what happens- and the nature's will effect the power number of the Jutsu casted. So if a fire Jutsu is cast against a wind Jutsu- half of the power of the wind Jutsu is added to the fire Jutsu.

So a wind Jutsu with

Focuse 6
Power 8
Effect 5
Nature 1
Combined 0
Vs
A fire Jutsu
Power 2
Effect 5
Nature 1
Combined 0
Focuse 6

Fire would win as expected. With a total of 18 vs winds 16, and would use much less powerful Jutsu to do it.

But lest do realistic comparison of rasangon and Chidori
Winds style order
Focuse 9
Power 9
Effect 1
Nature 0
Combined 0
Vs
Lightning style order
Nature 2
Combined 0
Power 8
Focuse 6
Effect 4
 As you can see lightning  chidori will still win but only just barely  by a score of 20 to 19. But because rasangon is neutral the elemental modify action to the power of chidori is not applied. Even though the Shinobi using resangon has wind style nature.