Skill tree ideas

[Manuster]

Just a quick note on the "only mastering 2" rule we've set up. What if after mastering the second mastering a third is possible, but the XP curve is ridiculously steepened, taking 5 times as long to master as the last. Remember that we have perma death, so if you can even last that long you can do it. Even after mastering every tree by staying alive for an inconceivable amount of, you aren't even unkillable. You can still be outnumbered or outplayed, you just have a lot to show for your experience. Again, Maybe the real mastery is in honing your skills without needing more than 2 trees. Its just an opportunity for there to be the "Madara's" of the world I guess. This isn't something I necessarily agree should be in the game, Again I'm just throwing ideas around

That's a good idea ngl. I think Vreg said something similar to this actually. There will be nothing preventing you from branching out at an early stage, it would just be dumb.

What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.

Yes this the idea. The skill tree is representitive of the skills and knowledge you possess. So  imagine a doll as the ninja with nothing in its skill tree... It can't do shit just sit there.
Give it some bass stats, strength, stamina, intelligence, dexterity, and imagination. Now it can walk around, learn, interact with things,and even dream up new things. Teach it a few skills and give it some basic experience to build up its  spiritual energy.

now give it the abuilitys to control chakra.
https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php?topic=2033.15
Now it can use its physical energy (the cotton it's made of) and its spiritual energies ( the skills and experience it has) to make chakra.yhe more points you put in this the better and more chakra your ninja has to use on the next 5 skills it can learn, each with skills  necessary to perform Justu. Some of these skills like chakra control and change in form are the same from one jutsu to another. So a more experienced player would be able to pick up jutsu quicker then one that is not as experienced. All the points added to the tree also get added to the total spirit energy you have and there for  (depending on your Chakra control) can give you even more chakra to use. jutsu have damage and effets training needed to use them programed in to them. Now they just need the  correlated skills to perform them. Then if you have 2x the points nessessary you do 2x the effects and damage and 1/2 the time to learn them. Simple.

Good. This is great, I'm finally wrapping my head around that thread of yours.

That doll explanation is also pretty damn good.

However, they can use Taijutsu techniques very VERY efficiently. A character based on these types of characters would have all their points spent in Taijutsu, increasing their damage output, efficiency and decreasing their cooldown/cast speeds for them.

As for your other option, an increase of distance should be another sub-branch in respective elemental tree. For example:

Tier 2:
Flash Fire (0/5)
Increases the distance of channeled fire jutsu's by 12/25/50/75%

Hardened Lungs (0/5)
Increases the distance of ranged fire jutsu's by 5/10/15/20%

This of course is a mere example for Fire elemental skill tree.

Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.

Having one elemental skill tree for all the user's elements doesn't seem right - anyone would be worse at their newly unlocked tertiary element than their mastered primary element - And there is also no point having 5 as the maximum anyone can use is 3.


@Vreg

Thoughts? The ideas are all here and it is something that -to the best of my knowledge- no other game has done before. You might have to put a bit more effort when designing a jutsu, as well as making correlations between jutsu use and skill tree increases.

I personally think that some features about the jutsu should only be affected by the use of that jutsu but again, it's your choice.

It makes the game far more realistic but as for the coding, I have no idea. Nothing about this should be difficult I think.

And sorry for all the tagging I've been doing lately ;_;

[NinjaMirage]

Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.

Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.

[NinjaMirage]

The changes to the camera I am talking about are:
- collision with the environment
- aiming mode

Is aiming mode going to be somthing you learn or as a built in Machanic? I posted it here hoping it will be a skill that we can put in the tree to increes are acuracy.
some example are
Target- soft locks camera on target
Bulls eye- soft lock with cross hair
Senbone  accurate - 2x zoom in cross hair
@Vreg

[lollernoob9]

Vreg hasnt really responded to this or the chakra control thread. probably will once we get to that point tho

[NinjaMirage]

Vreg hasnt really responded to this or the chakra control thread. probably will once we get to that point tho

Yeah I know I am just brain storming

There is one other way I can think to do this that go's along with the same line of thinking that jutsu require a spacifc skill set.

That is to have a skill bank.

Instead of having a list of skills available that you can unlock using skill points earned from training.

You train in the skill you want or need and it gets adddd to the skill bank this dose not nessessaraly need to be in order. Some skills  obviously have some prerequisite skills. But  trainers for those skills could be located in a place that you would have to have the prerequisite skill to get to. And you would obviously need to find the trainers of the skills.
The bank would hold all the skills you learn in the game both combat, passive and trainable skills.
Becoming a teacher for example could be a skill you could train.
Novice teacher -basic skills only
Beginner teacher- up to beginner skills
Intermediate "  - up to intermediate skills
(Note if you wanted to be a teacher you must MASTER all novice level skills before you can train to become a novice level teacher from a beginner level teacher.)
And so on

Battle skills
Aim
Taijustu
Ninjutsu
Genjutsu
Bukijutsu
Sensory
And so on each with levels as well

In the bank the skills could be listed 1-100 or however many we end up having or needing.
 
This makes programming the skills to the Jutsu easy as well as making it easy to keep trade of how much( knowlage and training ) Spirit energy you have earned in the training.

So if a Jutsu needs.      Bank skill code
Chakra control(cc)level 3 -   1L3
Advanced cc. L2.   -             36L3
Nature change L1.  -            30L1
Taijustu L4.           -             105L4
Speed up L6.        -             202L6
These would be skills needed for chidori
(In my opinion)
Then chidori would need a code requisite of
1L3_30L3_36L1_105L4_202L6
And these could have some kind of icon tied to the numbers that would be easy to find in the Jutsu scroll.
 
I think this is a better way to go.

[Manuster]

Would there be an elemental skill tree for each element? Or for the user's primary, secondary and (possibly) tertiary elements? That would mean an increase of at least 3 more skill trees and would mean that a wind style kenjutsu would require features from 2 skill trees.[/qoute]

Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.

You included your response in my quote but anyways xD


Again, I don't fully understand what you're trying to say but please be patient - I'm only half your age. xD

From what I can tell you're suggesting that for each chakra nature a user would have to relearn 'change in nature' and 'change in form' for that specific element?

And then, build up on that by then increasing attack and range for that element?

If that's it then it's a really good idea >.>

I think that Kekkei Genkai and Village Legacies should be separate. A character (who's very lucky) should be able to unlock both. In that case, they would have to have separate skill trees.

Also, while the idea of assigning skill points may be more convenient, it is far less realistic than your original idea. >.> In my opinion at least...

[lollernoob9]

lol Training is suppsoed to take time but the question is what will be improved. Anyway keep up the work (whether its used or not ) its interesting to think about hwo to actually implement training in a way that encourages it while maintaining stats within the (ninja) but fairly human limit

[DarthTyrael]

Like the chakra console skill there can be sub skills in within that one. A basic chakra control skill would have 3 parts
The mix
The tree climb
The walk on water
advanced combat chakra controlwould have 3 or more as well
Change in nature 1 ( this is based on your choice at charicter creation)
Change in form( I see up to 5 points in  this because some change in forms are header then others rasangon vs puppet strings.)
Change in nature (2 again based on charicter creation.) these are all skills that have there basis in chakra control.

As for a village legacy of you got one ( this is the only way to get 3 natures as I understand it)this would be a skill in its own right high up on the tree as it's much harder to control 2 natures at the same time, and adding a 3rd nature option with some bonuses to that nature in the tree.
This is essentially were any Kekkei genki skill would fall remember Kekkei genki like the sharingan is a skill that a clan member posesses
ice style and wood style and such are skills and as such things that the sharingan can't copy.

You included your response in my quote but anyways xD


Again, I don't fully understand what you're trying to say but please be patient - I'm only half your age. xD

From what I can tell you're suggesting that for each chakra nature a user would have to relearn 'change in nature' and 'change in form' for that specific element?

And then, build up on that by then increasing attack and range for that element?

If that's it then it's a really good idea >.>

@Manuster : What I think is that to unlock your first elemental chakra skills, the prerequisites for it are:
"Change in Nature I", which taps into your primary chakra nature (in my character Hayame's case: Earth).

But to use elemental jutsu, pure elemental chakra is not enough. You need to change it's form as well. This is where
"Change Form", comes in. After learning that - congratulations! You can now use elemental jutsu!

To use your second form, all you need to do is learn "Change in Nature II", in which you train yourself to tap into your secondary chakra nature (again in my character Hayame's case it's probably going to be Wind).

Which seems logical to me with what I remember from Naruto's wind training. (Though my memory is often empty af)

Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer

[NinjaMirage]

Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer

Everything is right up till this point.
think about this- is the change in form for sauska's chidori blade the same as the rasangon?? No - one is strait the other is spherical and in constant  Motion. I fact making a strait  solid stream of chakra is relatively easy by comparison. This is why you need more skill points in form change.

[DarthTyrael]

Also it would make sense NOT having to learn how to change the form of chakra TWICE since you already know the basics really Just how to attune to your other chakra nature.

Let me know if I'm correct with this explanation @cmsurfer

Everything is right up till this point.
think about this- is the change in form for sauska's chidori blade the same as the rasangon?? No - one is strait the other is spherical and in constant  Motion. I fact making a strait  solid stream of chakra is relatively easy by comparison. This is why you need more skill points in form change.

My point was this:

Once you know HOW to shape chakra, all you would need was the training (this can be either RP, uses of basic elemental jutsus or both) in order to gain increased knowledge of how to shape chakra's.

The access to other elemental jutsu's in then only inhibited by the lack of attunement to the other chakra nature (since you already know how to shape chakra.)

Using your straw doll example: You know how to build a Red colored straw doll (FIRE), you're just using different colored straws. But you need to know how to obtain these other colored (FOR EXAMPLE WIND = WHITE) straws.

[NinjaMirage]

I understand what your saying and you are right.

But it's still the same doll(Jutsu)in the end.

If that's the only form you can make your chakra then you can do a max of 5 Jutsu
And this if by some  miracle you're able to use all five elements.
The element might effect the shape of the Jutsu
Like wind did with naruto. But it's still the same change in form.

The change in form is what your training when you train your Jutsu. Chakra is normally  invisible inside your body. Any change to this is a change in form. This includes non elemental Jutsu. If you have 10 change in forms under your belt in you skill tree then you can use 10 completely different Jutsu and then up to 2 different elemental activations to make a max of 20 if there all elemental Jutsu.
Yin yang Jutsu,effect Jutsu that use chakra like transformation and substitution, these still would need at least one point in change in form.

The other thing is this will all fall in to the much larger category of spirit energy.
We can make training change in form only1 or 2or somthing like that and you'll be able to use whatever form in game. But the more spirit energy you have to make chakra the more chakra you'll have. There's no downside to making a lot of points going in to your skills... It will only make you stronger in the end.

So basically let's say they teach you in the academy how to do the supstatution Jutsu after you accomplish it in training you get the skill points in
Chakra control
Change in form
Stamina
And
Hiding

[Manuster]

;_;

Whether or not change in chakra form is unique to a particular element or not, there is still the question of how an individual will train it at first?

Since he/she has 0 change in chakra form, he won't be able to use any jutsu to increase it. How would the shinboi then get their first 'point' to enable elemental use.

[NinjaMirage]

;_;

Whether or not change in chakra form is unique to a particular element or not, there is still the question of how an individual will train it at first?

Since he/she has 0 change in chakra form, he won't be able to use any jutsu to increase it. How would the shinboi then get their first 'point' to enable elemental use.

I would think you  would get your first point in the Academy. There's no reason there can't be 2 skills a beginner form change and a advance form change. Beginner being non elemental and advanced being elemental. You wouldn't need a point in the skill to learn how to do it . A person that has never used free weights in their life  can be taught how.  However there should be some sort of intelligence cap Or requirement  on some skills.in fact all skills should have a requirement of bass stats.

So your bass stats effect what skills you can learn, your skills effect what Jutsu you can learn and your stats+skill points+ exp= spirit energy used to make chakra to perform the Jutsu you have learned.

If you want to learn every Jutsu in the game spend all your time maxing out your bass stats- then max out your skills- then learn all the Jutsu.

If you want to specialize only train stats the fit your specialty because the the highest level skills in your specialty- such as sage mode-should require stats higher then normal max of strength and intelligence( for game play preposes)
My idea befor of items to boost skills you can learn should be done in boosting stats. This will in turn make the skills your trying to max posable.

[Manuster]

Soz for the late reply xD

And I finally get this kek, so I'm outta questions xD

[Tsunayoshi]

I think that there'll be a lot of tree-walking in this game, and if you have seen the Naruto Series, you'd know that chakra control is needed in this procedure.

This being a naruto-inspired game, they can't force us to do quests, so all this skill managing and stuff will be up to us, well maybe it'll be this Help popups, that comes every once in a while but that's all they can do to control us.

We're ninjas, rogues, merchants, darn this is a world of opportunity.

So back to the tree-walk, I'm thinking that you'll need to tree-walk a lot to get the level up, so that for example: Leveling it up will increase the duration of how long you can walk up a tree. If it's a jutsu, it'll obviously need more chakra to get stronger, every jutsu is stronger if you give it lots of chakra, then again Chakra Control is needed.
---------------.
They could also do so that when we start our character, there's this tutorial teaching us the basics and shit. Teaching us how to do handsigns.

One thing I really, really like about this game is that we must do the handsigns our selves, I've learned the handsigns in-game now by heart. Chidori: 3,9,8 Fire..: 5,8,7,4 Wind...: 2,1,0,9.    Though if you just continue like this it'll be great, but remembering them would be an issue for people.

My apologies for going way off-topic here and there :O