Shinobi Life Online
Shinobi Life Online Category => Shinobi Life Online Suggestions => Topic started by: TheStylee on March 15, 2017, 14:10:24
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Hi guys.
I've went through to a lot of topics (that search function is usefull O.o ) and i've read about 'ur ideas of buildings,arhitecture,usage of them,even the jobs of shinobis.Now,ill try to be as clear as possible and complex on details so try to be patient while reading it.
tl;dr:read it you lazy-ass.
Building usage
I've seen some posts about how village will looks like and im making this suggestion cause will affect what devs are doing right now.Developing new buildings with difference usage.As far as i saw there will be Hospial , Police station , Ramen shop , Hokage center and a lot of damn houses.If im wrong and didnt look close enough,close the topic and fk me.Now,this may be may be suggestions:
Inteligence center/division
You saw it when Pain atacked the Village and get through the barrier .Theyr job is to keep an eye of anyone that enter on the village and protect it from assault pontential.This center is full of shinobis with high grade of sensory jutsu and,as i read on the forum,sensory jutsu is on to-do list of the game.I know we're trying not to be that close to naruto things,but it's a must for a village.More,when the assault of the village and war are becoming a thing.I suggested it now,as i said,cause now is the moment when you're building.
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/4/4f/Alliance_Headquarters.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/300?cb=20160304205745)
Library and scrolls center
It was on anime even from first episode if im not wrong(if yes,corect me please) and it contains a lot of scrolls.I dont know and maybe you dont know either how primary and basic jutsu are achived but it may be an ideea and it can contain a lot of books with the lore of the game.And it can be big.No,i mean it,i read the topic with this guys that are creating lore.That's a lot of imagination.Also,books with hokages history ,wars history of the game,rogue ninjas,clans,organizations and the things that they do.negative or positive.And all of the may be wrote by journalist.That's why im saying it:Builds and ideeas are creating jobs for shinobis and give us the realism that we are wishing so much.and also being better then 95% than governments on the world,buuut that's another story.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/4/45/Konoha_Archive_Library_Inside.PNG/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20110701135427)
Torturing and interogation division
Ibiki Morino explained you in anime pretty well that is this about.When 2 villages are in war,and one ninja is captured,you can't keep him locked in kage's office.it's a damn big window right there and as we know ppl on SLO like to jump.So this division contains ninjas that brings prisoniers here for informations.Maybe even let them go, for right informations.because we know that people on internet are nice and have a lot of mercy.we could call it abator division too,i guess. O.o
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/d/d8/Torture_and_Interrogation_Unit.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20150927205148)
Academy
Not many info here.If u are agree with the suggestion of ranks down on this post,u will consider it a must.Keep reading
Restaurants?
As i said on the begging,maybe i didnt look close enough on the map,but better prevent then treat,so :As me,you,and we expect a large of numbers of game,one or two ramen shops will be..not enough space to be fast.We need more restaurants on village.I mean it !!!!
(https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yxngXQIR1ro8cnpo1_500.gif)
***If you got anymore ideea for the buildings with usage comment.Id love to read other worth ideeas!***
Level system & Rank system
I understand that this is not an exactly soon to-do thing,but a good ideea is noticed and it may help on the future.a brick here,a brick there.
Leveling:
Im not sure i read corectly,or old posts,but i understood that staff won't have levels.And i feel this...not comfortable.
First of all:Levels and experience are big part of a mmorpg concept.The competivity ,the running for exp gain would keep us alive.You don't have to make mobs or things like this for it,but missions,doing your choosed job well (anbu/ramen shop seller) with some achived target and getting experience.
2nd:The competitive scene should feel real.After lets say,3 month of the release,a lot of people will get Jounin rank and have a lot of jutsu.PvP is fine but in the end it gets boring.Yes i said that.kill me now.but that's what competitive is.What's what allows me having that fancy jutsu over that ugly "Shuriken mdfkr throw".Keep us on vibeeee!
3th:A better way to make differences.How i said,a lot of ppl will grow up on rank after few time.And wars and rogues wont be fun forever.Or atleast 12h/days ,how mmorpg should keep u on chair.So over exploring,killing,and eating rammen we could grow up on level and encourage me to make that stupid mission that ask me to chase a cat.
Ranking & Exams
I was so completly disagree with the ideeas about this on forum.I mean,there was a topic where ppl suggest an almost DM for chunnin exam.that's so dumb and so much waaaste of potential.Im not sure im right,i wait happily suggestions and improvments,but that's how i think about ranking system:
You start as academy student and u keep being here for till the u recive that diploma.That means ,once at 3 days the diploma is gaved to the begginers and they are shared on teams with a jounin as teacher.On that week of academy there may be tutorials about game,informations,mission-tutorials, learning few basic jutsu ,learning to work on team and even make contact with other academy student.You are tying a tying a friendships with people with some knowledge like you,start to understand the game mechanics ,the possibilities,the restrictions.
Going from Academy student -> Genin should not cost anything.Just playing 3 days and getting your diploma.
I understand that Chunnin exam is a verry debatated subject and i understand that my opinion is under others,but ill still give a shot.How i said,opinions and improving ideeas are welcomed!
You need to spend some time as a gennin.I would say atleast 3 weeks.That will get used you to the game,you will have enough missions done and u saw the map how it looks like.You even saw the pvp outside when that sand guy was chasing you and you understand the basics.But if you want do advance,you must know the lore of the game.Otherwise,what's the ideea of the game?Shinobi life = village = "A country where people do not know their country's history is lost country". I have to prove my loiality to the village,learn theyr history and even of the game.So Chunnin exman should be like this:
Once in a moth ,the registrations are free-open if you're a genin.
The first step will be an written exam of lore of the game and the village and even the bascis of the game that u learned on your first 3 weeks here.
The 2nd step will be a pvp-fight on arena.But only 75% of candidates will promote.How's that?: If now they are 50 candidates,it will be a 1 v 1 fight.50% will win , ,that means 25 players. the losers ones,rest 25 will have a second chance to the fight against each others losers.12 players win,that means 37 of 50.thats a 75% percentage.If we go this way,we will asure enough and a generous promitions,and not that much cry for not passing of to many ppl.That 12 guuys who losed,have to get another mounth till the next chunnin exams.
That would be Genin -> Chunnin.
Now,when u are becoming a Jounin,u are practically a veteran of the village.In case of war,assault and so on ,excepting anbu,you are expect to save people,protect the village ,capture and killing the enemy.
Advancing from Chunnin -> Jonnin
In order do that ,anime doesnt show us what a Jounin have to do to become one.So i've made my long research on naruto folders wiki,and i pull out a conclusion with a semi-original ideea:When you want to become a jounin u have to be a Chounin with ur jutsu at a pretty high level, a certain level (ur choose) . That's the steps:
1.Talk to a specific NPC and ask him for promition.He will give u an random S mission specialised on spying OR assasination,you will make complete a registration-formular .It will be read and accepted/declined by the Hokage.cause..that's one of the hokage's jobs,as we all know.pappers.He can see yours entire profile since u play.More exactly : Missions done,place u have visited,the amount of job you have done for village.To be more and more exactly,becoming a jounin is not a right,it's a privillege.You must have a pretty good palmares and good history for becoming one.You can still be a kim-kardishian-atitudin,elders will asure the hokage's decision is complety neutral and transparent.This request can be done once per week.
After you finished this trio geni-chuni-jouni fiesta,you should get a job.But that,and stats,and other things will talk later when game will be a in a more advanced stage.
That's all for now.I wait you opinions ,improviments,modifications,but only thing that i PLEASE you is to complete them with strong argument.negative or positive,doesnt matter.but strong arguments!
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Dude. This is a pretty good effort.
1. The intelligence division seems like a swell idea. But I think npcs would be best suited here cause shinobi would probably be most interested in doing field stuff. But in order to keep rp relevant there could be some places which are not monitored by the npc and have to be by players because you still need to have that threat of infiltration.
2. The library would definitely be present in every village. But the forbidden scrolls etc would probably be better off under the kage's
possession.
3. The torture division would be going overboard with the rp. No player wants to be stuck in a chair watching people pluck finger nails off their character. And even if this was a thing, the usual end to torture is death which will not be perma inside the village so there's no point in this.
4. Academy is already planned and is a part of okagakure's current build.
5. Ramen shops are planned and if my memory serves me right are already in the current build.
The devs are coming up with a community building creation tool. So there's still a fuckton more to come. Made by us. So yay.
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Adithya perfectly responded to the village part.
But the rest...>.>
<.<
Leveling:
Im not sure i read corectly,or old posts,but i understood that staff won't have levels.And i feel this...not comfortable.
First of all:Levels and experience are big part of a mmorpg concept.The competivity ,the running for exp gain would keep us alive.You don't have to make mobs or things like this for it,but missions,doing your choosed job well (anbu/ramen shop seller) with some achived target and getting experience.
2nd:The competitive scene should feel real.After lets say,3 month of the release,a lot of people will get Jounin rank and have a lot of jutsu.PvP is fine but in the end it gets boring.Yes i said that.kill me now.but that's what competitive is.What's what allows me having that fancy jutsu over that ugly "Shuriken mdfkr throw".Keep us on vibeeee!
3th:A better way to make differences.How i said,a lot of ppl will grow up on rank after few time.And wars and rogues wont be fun forever.Or atleast 12h/days ,how mmorpg should keep u on chair.So over exploring,killing,and eating rammen we could grow up on level and encourage me to make that stupid mission that ask me to chase a cat.
Honestly, preference over a levelling system or not comes down to personal opinion.
The problem with levels is that it doesn't cover everything about a shinobi.
A level 35 shinobi can lose to a level 28 if the 28 has balanced all round and the level 35 is only trained in kenjutsu.
Furthermore, there is also going to be no point to levelling. You wont be awarded experience points as ALL your stats can only be improved through practice. And not by spending skill points.
Experience is also going to be difficult to distribute for several reasons;
If multiple people kill something worth 100 experience; is it split evenly? What if one person did 95% of the work? Does the person who do the last blow get a larger %? (Even if it was their only hit??) Is it split according to how much damage they did? What if you're a medical ninja? Do they get none? Even if they saved EVERYONE from dying 2/3 times??? Would they then get all of it?? What if you were only present for 10 seconds in a battle that lasted 10 minutes? Do you lose out? Even if you did 90% of the damage? Is it measured by how long you were in a battle for?
Each and every point above can be argued for. And rather than that....stress. It's best if everyone just gets more skilled in the justu they used, so whether they used it once, or 56 times; the gains would be linear, consistent and fair.
Ranking & Exams
I was so completly disagree with the ideeas about this on forum.I mean,there was a topic where ppl suggest an almost DM for chunnin exam.that's so dumb and so much waaaste of potential.Im not sure im right,i wait happily suggestions and improvments,but that's how i think about ranking system:
You start as academy student and u keep being here for till the u recive that diploma.That means ,once at 3 days the diploma is gaved to the begginers and they are shared on teams with a jounin as teacher.On that week of academy there may be tutorials about game,informations,mission-tutorials, learning few basic jutsu ,learning to work on team and even make contact with other academy student.You are tying a tying a friendships with people with some knowledge like you,start to understand the game mechanics ,the possibilities,the restrictions.
Going from Academy student -> Genin should not cost anything.Just playing 3 days and getting your diploma.
I understand that Chunnin exam is a verry debatated subject and i understand that my opinion is under others,but ill still give a shot.How i said,opinions and improving ideeas are welcomed!
You need to spend some time as a gennin.I would say atleast 3 weeks.That will get used you to the game,you will have enough missions done and u saw the map how it looks like.You even saw the pvp outside when that sand guy was chasing you and you understand the basics.But if you want do advance,you must know the lore of the game.Otherwise,what's the ideea of the game?Shinobi life = village = "A country where people do not know their country's history is lost country". I have to prove my loiality to the village,learn theyr history and even of the game.So Chunnin exman should be like this:
Once in a moth ,the registrations are free-open if you're a genin.
The first step will be an written exam of lore of the game and the village and even the bascis of the game that u learned on your first 3 weeks here.
The 2nd step will be a pvp-fight on arena.But only 75% of candidates will promote.How's that?: If now they are 50 candidates,it will be a 1 v 1 fight.50% will win , ,that means 25 players. the losers ones,rest 25 will have a second chance to the fight against each others losers.12 players win,that means 37 of 50.thats a 75% percentage.If we go this way,we will asure enough and a generous promitions,and not that much cry for not passing of to many ppl.That 12 guuys who losed,have to get another mounth till the next chunnin exams.
That would be Genin -> Chunnin.
Now,when u are becoming a Jounin,u are practically a veteran of the village.In case of war,assault and so on ,excepting anbu,you are expect to save people,protect the village ,capture and killing the enemy.
Advancing from Chunnin -> Jonnin
In order do that ,anime doesnt show us what a Jounin have to do to become one.So i've made my long research on naruto folders wiki,and i pull out a conclusion with a semi-original ideea:When you want to become a jounin u have to be a Chounin with ur jutsu at a pretty high level, a certain level (ur choose) . That's the steps:
1.Talk to a specific NPC and ask him for promition.He will give u an random S mission specialised on spying OR assasination,you will make complete a registration-formular .It will be read and accepted/declined by the Hokage.cause..that's one of the hokage's jobs,as we all know.pappers.He can see yours entire profile since u play.More exactly : Missions done,place u have visited,the amount of job you have done for village.To be more and more exactly,becoming a jounin is not a right,it's a privillege.You must have a pretty good palmares and good history for becoming one.You can still be a kim-kardishian-atitudin,elders will asure the hokage's decision is complety neutral and transparent.This request can be done once per week.
After you finished this trio geni-chuni-jouni fiesta,you should get a job.But that,and stats,and other things will talk later when game will be a in a more advanced stage.
That's all for now.I wait you opinions ,improviments,modifications,but only thing that i PLEASE you is to complete them with strong argument.negative or positive,doesnt matter.but strong arguments!
I heavily doubt that 3 days is enough experience to become Genin.
Unless, by 3 days, you mean 24 x 3 hours of game time. Because what if you log in just once in the space of 3 days? What if you stay logged on for 12 hours straight and by the end of 2 days, you're talented enough to rank up?
What's genuinely wrong with an ELO system to rank you up?
Funnily enough, I agree with your suggestions on Chuunin exams. However, ofc, you should only be allowed to take the exams when your ELO is high enough. And instead of monthly, maaaybe weekly? Or fornightly. Fortnightly is better.
And I would love to see Jounin exams, personally. (BUT YOU NEED A CERTAIN ELO TO EVEN QUALIFY)
I do feel as though Jonin exams should/could be long and stressful, far far far more complicated than Chuunin exams.
Possible even over the top.
Example:
In your next 7 days (7 x 24 hours) of game time complete the following tasks
1. Capture/Kill a rogue
(Rogue alternative) Capture/Kill a village affiliated player
(Medic alternative) Heal 3 different ailments (poisoning, bleeding, stun, reduced chakra capacity, etc.)
2. Reach 25% HP in a perma death zone.
3. Reduce another person's HP to 25% in a perma death zone.
(Medic alternative) Heal an individual to full health from 25% in a perma death zone.
4. Learn a NEW forbidden jutsu
5. Visit 5 villages
6. Learn a NEW Master level jutsu in your primary chakra nature
7. Complete 10 A rank missions and 25 B rank missions. (This can be done individually, or as part of a 3 man squad)
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@adithya : Thank u for commenting.I understand and im agree with what u said most of them,excluding the torturing division.
As i said on first post,it won't torture ppl at all(wtf?) just asking them for informations ,threating,even use them as a bait for the rescue team that want to save the captured guy.strategy xd
@Manuster Got it with the leveling.I still feel it uncofortable ,have to addmit,but you explaned pretty well.Understood.
About ranking:Have to say HELL WRONG ON EVERYTHING U SAID.
First,yes,i mean 3 days in SLO,not real world.guess not mentioning it was a wrong decision.
BUT,
Ello ,as i read and shoule be,is ranked.It means competitive and should not be in touch with the ranking system at all.And there are couple of reasons.:
1.First of all,your ello won't raise to fast if you're medical ninja,neitherif you're not a fighting guy type.that if you choose to ignore the fact that game is on hardcore with perma death and everything will be a continue deatchmatch.which is bleah,cause the puropose of the game is meant to be simulating shinobi life.And even if shinobi's killing each other,they shouldn't be waited in the woods ,enjoying nature and the awsome graphics, by a bunch of genins trying to get the chunnin grade.
2.ELO and ranked system as i said should be strict competitive.That means ELO ,with a top and some prizes,events,but again NOT in touch with the ranking system.
Jounin exam that un mentioned about:Completly wrong,in my opinion.It purely dont cover the "What a jounin should do" " What is a jounin " . and "reducing hp 25% in perma death zone area" and learning a forbbiden jutsu is just not what a jounin is.
Hope you didnt think i have a aggresive tone.tried to explain as good as i could. thx :D
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Ello ,as i read and shoule be,is ranked.It means competitive and should not be in touch with the ranking system at all.And there are couple of reasons.:
1.First of all,your ello won't raise to fast if you're medical ninja,neitherif you're not a fighting guy type.that if you choose to ignore the fact that game is on hardcore with perma death and everything will be a continue deatchmatch.which is bleah,cause the puropose of the game is meant to be simulating shinobi life.And even if shinobi's killing each other,they shouldn't be waited in the woods ,enjoying nature and the awsome graphics, by a bunch of genins trying to get the chunnin grade.
2.ELO and ranked system as i said should be strict competitive.That means ELO ,with a top and some prizes,events,but again NOT in touch with the ranking system.
Jounin exam that un mentioned about:Completly wrong,in my opinion.It purely dont cover the "What a jounin should do" " What is a jounin " . and "reducing hp 25% in perma death zone area" and learning a forbbiden jutsu is just not what a jounin is.
Hope you didnt think i have a aggresive tone.tried to explain as good as i could. thx :D
I agree with you but we are in the minority on this point in the community.
I too think ranking by ELO should have nothing to do with a characters abuility/skills and should only represent a players win rate In fights.
As in naruto a rank in a village means very little when it comes to strength and skill of a Shinobi.
But I also don't think leveling is the awnser.
"Experience" that is the basis for levels in every other mmorpg is built in to a lore in the naruto universe as "energys" that make up chakra and stamina.
In essence training gains experience not fighting.
So any type of training makes your character stronger. At least in reference to chakra. Physical training would work more twirls stamina. At least that is how I tried to work out the whole character growth with out levels. Leaving ranking only to combate.
But I was shot down... but I hope more people will think like you!! Because there are major problems with ELO ranking of characters and rewards of skills and jutsu for it.
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But...but..it would be so much of waste potential.So much great and amazing ideeas about growing up on rank(gen,chu) wasted on a so simple kill-for system?but why?why would you make a deatchmatch situation all game?Im really sad that i read we are a minority on this.This is just so much ideas about it and ..and close it with a so shity and simple thing..Why would waste so much potential of the game ?!
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That smartass tl;dr comment almost made me not read this wall of text but my curiosity gave in. I get that you were kidding and I didn't get offended in any way but it just shows lack of consideration from your part mate and imo kinda gives away your lack of maturity...
Buildings: From what I've heard, the community will be able to design some buildings (not sure if only on the designing stage or also when the game supposedly comes out), if there's a management side to controlling a village then I think we could start with a pretty basic village like the one we have now and then build these kinda stuff as the village grows. Not sure this is the case though but imo that'd be pretty cool.
Although yeah buildings like library and prison should be standard. I think we'll have restaurants to start with as well.
Levelling: Levels are by far not the only way to engage someone. The ELO rank would probably suffice to keep people motivated to play. There's a special sense of freedom in being able to do every jutsu if your chakra enables you, you'll try and find new jutsus, learn them and beating someone by mere skill, jutsu knowledge and physical development (aka hp and stamina). That imo is much more fulfilling than getting squashed by high lvl characters who are invincible for lower level players. Anyone could beat everyone with actual game skill instead of with time spent playing the game.
Ofc the more you'd train a jutsu the easier and better it'd get in-game.
As for the issues @Manuster shared, there's a simple solution to all that: Experience is dealt based on damage given+hp recovered. There could be some more variations into this such as points for trapping an enemy or luring towards a trap and stuff like that but the original formula would already cover most damage dealer and medic shinobis.
But overall I'm against levels in this game.
Rankings: Well I'm not sure I completely understand your aversion to ELO ranking but I kinda exposed my point already. With the adjustments I proposed it should prove effective for all kind of shinobi. No leveling up, just experience gathering with some weapons/jutsus to make them more effective and ELO system based partly on this experience, missions performed and fights won. @Vreg seems to be a reasonable person so I think he will be able to balance out fun and logic in this ranking system, my way is just one way of doing that imo.
As for the exams you all don't seem to be taking into account the kind of people that'll be playing this game... To make the game interesting for everyone they should indeed stay as academy students for only a short period of time (say 10h in-game) and make an exam that actually requires some amount of training, otherwise people could just leave their computer on for 10h. Say consecutively performing a set number of jutsus from a big pool of basic jutsus so that they have to study several of them. It'd also serve the purpose of a tutorial but it'd be masked as an exam.
After that there'll still be lots of people that are definitely not team players and will want to screw other people on the exams just for the "fun" of it. Those people should stay gennin or academy students for life imo until they learn to work in a team so I agree with having a team based chunnin exam provided these idiots are not accepted. So we'll need to wear them out (they get bored easily fortunately), 3 weeks mandatory as a gennin seems reasonable but also send them on missions that rely on teamwork to pass or in which they have to interact with someone (persuade someone to do something for instance). They'd have to go on a required number of these missions before taking the chunnin exam.
However when designing this stage Vreg wil have to keep in mind the different timezones and schedules of people, it wouldn't be a very interesting experience to be assigned to a team and barely be able to stay online all 4 because of personal/professional reasons. Considering most of the fan base for this game are probably teenagers and young adults I don't see lots of people with the schedule versatility this game might require...
Regardless, apart from maybe these (let's call them) "traditional rules", additional rules and exam format should be up to the kage to decide honestly.
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@Manuster Got it with the leveling.I still feel it uncofortable ,have to addmit,but you explaned pretty well.Understood.
ayyye np dude, i like your understandind
About ranking:Have to say HELL WRONG ON EVERYTHING U SAID.
First,yes,i mean 3 days in SLO,not real world.guess not mentioning it was a wrong decision.
BUT,
*cracks knuckles*
Ello ,as i read and shoule be,is ranked.It means competitive and should not be in touch with the ranking system at all.And there are couple of reasons.:
1.First of all,your ello won't raise to fast if you're medical ninja,neitherif you're not a fighting guy type.that if you choose to ignore the fact that game is on hardcore with perma death and everything will be a continue deatchmatch.which is bleah,cause the puropose of the game is meant to be simulating shinobi life.And even if shinobi's killing each other,they shouldn't be waited in the woods ,enjoying nature and the awsome graphics, by a bunch of genins trying to get the chunnin grade.
2.ELO and ranked system as i said should be strict competitive.That means ELO ,with a top and some prizes,events,but again NOT in touch with the ranking system.
Jounin exam that un mentioned about:Completly wrong,in my opinion.It purely dont cover the "What a jounin should do" " What is a jounin " . and "reducing hp 25% in perma death zone area" and learning a forbbiden jutsu is just not what a jounin is.
Hope you didnt think i have a aggresive tone.tried to explain as good as i could. thx :D
Well your ELO as a medical ninja won't at all be based on your fighting abilities, I'm pretty sure that was already planned. They won't be disadvantaged from it.
From what I read, ELO was going to be based on your skills, talents and abilities - NOT your fighting prowess.
When Vreg said "ELO" he wasn't referring strictly to the traditional ELO methods, I do believe - if I'm not wrong- that ELO will reflect everything about a player; not just their battle outcome. ELO will increase as you train, not when you beat someone.
Jounin exam that un mentioned about:Completly wrong,in my opinion.It purely dont cover the "What a jounin should do" " What is a jounin " . and "reducing hp 25% in perma death zone area" and learning a forbbiden jutsu is just not what a jounin is.
Hope you didnt think i have a aggresive tone.tried to explain as good as i could. thx :D
It might not, but I personally thought it wa a good test of a shinobi's all round capabilities...>.>
Getting them to complete a number of missions, take risks and survive them, display skills in their respective specialisations, successfully target an individual from another affiliation, and find/buy a forbidden jutsu and learn it....
If a Jonin doesn't do those then what does a Jonin do?
edit:
IF and WHEN trade related skills are implemented, then OFC, there would be a requirement or 2 or 3about that;
1. Obtain x amount of a high class material/substance
2. Create using a high class material/substance OR Create a high class....thing?
im being so vague because im trying to include a requirement for any of the numerous trades that may be available to SLO
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@Manuster
Well your ELO as a medical ninja won't at all be based on your fighting abilities, I'm pretty sure that was already planned. They won't be disadvantaged from it.
From what I read, ELO was going to be based on your skills, talents and abilities - NOT your fighting prowess.
ELO will not work for this experience-training and skills cannot and will not effect an ELO system.
When Vreg said "ELO" he wasn't referring strictly to the traditional ELO methods, I do believe - if I'm not wrong- that ELO will reflect everything about a player; not just their battle outcome. ELO will increase as you train, not when you beat someone
Wrong ELO is strictly a mesutment of the likely outcome of a fight based on the players skill at the game. Not the characters skills you train.
The player is what is ranked not the character.
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That smartass tl;dr comment almost made me not read this wall of text but my curiosity gave in. I get that y.
why so serious bro xdd
Buildings: From what I've heard, the community will be able to design some buildings (not sure if only on the designing stage or also when the game supposedly comes out), if there's a management side to controlling a village then I think we could start with a pretty basic village like the one we have now and then build these kinda stuff as the village grows. Not sure this is the case though but imo that'd be pretty cool.
Although yeah buildings like library and prison should be standard. I think we'll have restaurants to start with as well.
Sure thing,we may build them,but the staff is the one that give them an usage ,writting on code-game what they do.That's the reason of suggestions-buildings. ^^
Levelling: Levels are by far not the only way to engage someone. The ELO rank would probably suffice to keep people motivated to play. There's a special sense of freedom in being able to do every jutsu if your chakra enables you, you'll try and find new jutsus, learn them and beating someone by mere skill, jutsu knowledge and physical development (aka hp and stamina). That imo is much more fulfilling than getting squashed by high lvl characters who are invincible for lower level players. Anyone could beat everyone with actual game skill instead of with time spent playing the game.
Ofc the more you'd train a jutsu the easier and better it'd get in-game.
As for the issues @Manuster shared, there's a simple solution to all that: Experience is dealt based on damage given+hp recovered. There could be some more variations into this such as points for trapping an enemy or luring towards a trap and stuff like that but the original formula would already cover most damage dealer and medic shinobis.
But overall I'm against levels in this game.
As i said up on this topic,i still feel uncofortable with no-leveling thing ( maybe because i get used to it playing so many mmorpgs all of this time with the games with same concept and mechanics) but the arguments were strong enough to make me understand why not.Drop it.
Well I'm not sure I completely understand your aversion to ELO ranking but I kinda exposed my point already. With the adjustments I proposed it should prove effective for all kind of shinobi. No leveling up, just experience gathering with some weapons/jutsus to make them more effective and ELO system based partly on this experience, missions performed and fights won. @Vreg seems to be a reasonable person so I think he will be able to balance out fun and logic in this ranking system, my way is just one way of doing that imo.
Maybe i get the wrong ideea of the ello,but far as i know ELO is a universal word on MOBA games and it measure ur MMR.It means no skill/moves/decisions measuring ,just ur outcame battle.Lose or win.And what i wanted to say is that ELO system ( Ranked also) should be just a competitional system that have no contact with the exams and actually basic gameplay.It means i can be a jounin even with my ELO being low.That's how we avoid making game a deathmatching situation-witch is kinda not likeable with a perma-death-zones' . I think i gave a pretty good example on this post: And even if shinobi's killing each other,they shouldn't be waited in the woods ,enjoying nature and the awsome graphics, by a bunch of genins trying to get the chunnin grade.
. Hope u understood me,if not,ask again.Il try to be even more explicit.
@Manuster: Thank u for commenting bro and not getting my tone too agresive.NinjaMirage explained pretty well what i meant..
Thanks anyone for posting.Negative or positive.As i said on first post,share ur opinion being with or against my suggestion,but do it with arguments.Maybe Vreg and the devs may extract some good stuffs outta this topic if we keep it well-argumented.Keep talking :v
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From what I read your ideas sound pretty solid but Ye the leveling system should be entirely role play based of you ask me, have a grading system for things role play players do so they can receive tokens to advance the attributes of their characters starting from 0, and give them talent paths to choose from, basically making the game come entirely down to rping if you want to advance
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Our current planned system:
1. The shinobi ranks of Academy Student, Genin, Chunin, Special Jonin (Chunin ranked shinobi whom have a certain Jonin-level ability) and Jonin.
2. An ELO-based shinobi rating that effectively measures the level of skill of the player behind a character, this rating is what will show the difference between e.g. a highly skilled Genin and an average Chunin, or a highly skilled Jonin and an average Jonin.
Having a certain shinobi rating is what will make you eligible for upgrading your shinobi rank by participating in the required exams, participating in said exams to increase your shinobi rank is however a personal choice that is left to you and is in no way mandatory. You have to take account the changes that will come forth once your shinobi rank has increased. For example, a Jonin ranked shinobi will get more difficult missions, will have to lead a Genin team, but will also get a higher pay, these are just a few examples of the type of changes that can occur.
So if your shinobi rating gets high enough, you will get invited to partake in exams for the next rank. If you partake in these exams and get required minimum grade (these exams are both theoretical and practical), you will get assigned your new shinobi rank.
Now to answer this specific topic, although we have currently no plans to add more shinobi ranks, I'm not against the idea.
This was really what i wanted to know...since ranking up wont be mandatory will jutsus be locked by rank?
No, your rank has no influence on your character's capabilities in any way.
So yare my bad, apparently ELO and trained stats are in no way related.
There is a minimum ELO to progress to each rank, but it tells nothing of a characters stats.... so yare I do see your point now.....
But if ELO is only a reflection of a players fighting abilities then what about kill-sniping????
I can see where you're coming from, but actually it all depends on the rank the ninja's had when you killed them.
Example:
Jonin rogue kills a Genin = +10 ELO
Jonin rogue kills a Chunin = +30 ELO
Jonin rogue kills a Jonin = + 100 ELO
The squad ELO has no influence over the amount you'll be receiving for killing them.
this is going to lead to so muck kill sniping.
What would be the point in high level ninja spam killing lower ranks? It's just a waste of time for such little ELO.
no your thinking of it backwards...your in a squad your a b-rank and all you need is this c-rank kill to get to a-rank. you whittle the guy down to the point that all you need is a hit with a kunie- the guy starts to run away and a e-rank in your squad throws his kunai and kills him. now...his score jumps like crazy...this is called kill sniping.
If your training genin as a jonin this is going to happen. and it wouldn't be bad except your going to have people running around with out the skill there elo indicates. using jutsu they haven't really earned.
this is why i suggested that there needs to be some kind of training before you can reach next ELO rank-tree climb walk on water,change in nature training- something before you can reach the next ELO rank
but this still won't stop some low ranking rouge from running by and stealing your kill then running away.
From what I read your ideas sound pretty solid but Ye the leveling system should be entirely role play based of you ask me, have a grading system for things role play players do so they can receive tokens to advance the attributes of their characters starting from 0, and give them talent paths to choose from, basically making the game come entirely down to rping if you want to advance
no 'skill points' or 'tokens' to advance attributes.
if you want to train something, you'll have to use it - like rl
run to get faster
jump to jump higher
dodge to dodge faster
cast jutsu (and use it) to get better at it (less chakra, more effective, better range, etc)
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From what you just said run to Run faster, jump to jump higher is literally a farming concept, people will literally stay on and farm these all day long Mofo gonna be pvping for days then reach kage level
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From what you just said run to Run faster, jump to jump higher is literally a farming concept, people will literally stay on and farm these all day long Mofo gonna be pvping for days then reach kage level
you dont run 10/20 minutes times to max out speed, im guessing its going to take a hell of a long time (10/20 hours of running probably)
and if a player wants to spend their first 20 hours just running then thats fine by me
they'll have the speed of a God, naruto's genjutsu and rock lee's ninjutsu
Whether or not there will be a "perk" system is neither here nor there for one simple reason: People's definition of perk vary.
I don't know what Vreg sees as a perk, but in my own opinion, what has been "exampled" above is not necessary. I believe there will already be a "perk" system in the game, and that will be in a form of time-based leveling. For example, in order to increase the damage of a certain flame jutsu, one will need to consistently train and use said jutsu. Vreg also once said that similar jutsu (e.g Fire ball and Fire breath) could possibly have complementary factors. This meaning that by leveling up Fire Breath, Fire Ball will slightly increase along with it due to them being so similar. This would translate over to all aspects of the game, because by time-based leveling, I mean that a player needs to constantly train and use what he wishes to level up, running for stamina and speed, jumping for further height and distance, etc. You get the picture.
Now, like I said previously, the definition of "perk" varies, and I could have completely misread the purpose of this post in terms of what you meant by perks, but along my thoughts, this seems like a perk system mixed into an extensive leveling system. This would result into a game that is not about 100% skill, but as well as time and commitment.
Items are another conversation however. Even though it's pretty dead-set on them being in the game for cosmetic reasons only.
This is where I got this from.
Honestly, it's far more realistic imo
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The exam for Jonin should be decided by each individual village.
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But @TheStylee is right!!! It will be very slow and subtle to have each skill slowly grow by use!!
Now subtlety is not a bad thing but the reason all the major Mmorpgs are so successful is because of the instent gratification from a in your face LEVEL UP!!
Now this game should not and will not have that!! But there should be a well thought out reason why you are able to learn different things!! If not my system then I'm interested in what???
Also as far as ranking goes, I am still not totally convinced ELO is the right way to do it. I have made the argument before that every game I can think of that uses a ELO system is one on one. Clash of clans, chess, other phone apps are not multiplayer when it comes to the actual game play. there is no need to worry about someone coming in and stealing a kill.(sniping as manuster called it)
I still don't see how ELO will work in a Mmorpg
Groups won't work because you won't be with the same group for the hole game
Individual won't work because of sniping.
And even if you somehow managed to come up with a new accurate form of ELO only for this game, what's the point when it dose nothing for the character and only convays the player skills at the game.
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@NinjaMirage Don't get me wrong.Elo system would be a nice thing.It could work even for clans and organisations.It can be a top and most important thing , it show us the difference between a good genin and a bad one.But my asks ,suggestions and posts are almost all about why should promotions from a rank to another( genin - > chunnin etc) should have anything to do with ELO. I mean yes,elo is a difference between a good one and a better one,but growing up in rank should NOTHING have to do with elo.this PLUS hardcore game where you can die permanentaly.I am agree tho with a fight in area where dead doesnt mean end of the game,just a visit to hospital.
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I agree with @TheStylee. There is even naruto universe president for certain skills and jutsu to be associated with a jonin or chunin rank.
Example
the ambidextrous skill (to eliminate the dominant hand is started at chunin and continues to jonin)& the Change in chakra nature skill are just 2 examples.
This suggests that skills when unlocked
Should signal that some one is ready to take a exam for a given rank not a ELO score.
ELO and skills will not be linked in any way so rank by ELO makes any kind of skill related to rank not possible. However if rank is based on skill not ELO and ELO only is used for it's intended perpose to Measure player ability.
Witch is fraught with its own problems in a Mmorpg style game. Then there is no conflict.
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I agree with @TheStylee. There is even naruto universe president for certain skills and jutsu to be associated with a jonin or chunin rank.
Example
the ambidextrous skill (to eliminate the dominant hand is started at chunin and continues to jonin)& the Change in chakra nature skill are just 2 examples.
2 points:
First - Yes, character skills/levels should determine eligibility for rank-up exams, however passing them would certainly rely on a player's skill.
Lastly - There should be a certain reward system for 'gitting gud' at the game, be that cosmetic items or early access to certain skills that would other wise be hard to obtain/scrolls that increase certain stats making it easier to meet reqs to obtain skills (i.e. Scroll of Secret giving you a random A-rank jutsu in an element/genjutsu with a small chance of S-rank or Scroll of <element/genjutsu/weapon/stat> - gives knowledge/stat experience)
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No @DarthTyrael I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.
Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.
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No @DarthTyrael I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.
Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.
Not really, if the ELO system is well adjusted to the game a supporting role can gain as much as a damage dealer. Sure it's based on win/loss ratios but it can get other parameters to the equation such as damage dealt/healed and bonus points such as luring the enemy to a trap, etc. The ELO system was firstly developed for chess, if we use it raw ofc it isn't going to work perfectly on a mmorpg, it needs these adjustments.
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I really like the effort you put on this but I'm not really sure about the levelling but the rest is really cool and I think that the Jonin test should be decided by each village.
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No @DarthTyrael I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.
Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.
Not really, if the ELO system is well adjusted to the game a supporting role can gain as much as a damage dealer. Sure it's based on win/loss ratios but it can get other parameters to the equation such as damage dealt/healed and bonus points such as luring the enemy to a trap, etc. The ELO system was firstly developed for chess, if we use it raw ofc it isn't going to work perfectly on a mmorpg, it needs these adjustments.
@Blazefp
ELO is every effective at what it dose. It will predict the outcome of a match extremely accurately. But if you alter inputs other then a binary win/lose, it starts to fall apart after a few rounds of play. you will get a number if you do it but it will not be as good and may over or under estimate a players skills. It would essentially become useless.
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@Blazefp
ELO is every effective at what it dose. It will predict the outcome of a match extremely accurately. But if you alter inputs other then a binary win/lose, it starts to fall apart after a few rounds of play. you will get a number if you do it but it will not be as good and may over or under estimate a players skills. It would essentially become useless.
True but ELO was made specifically for chess, if you use it unaltered for somehting else it'll also be useless. There are no teams or different classes of players with different goals in chess.
I'm not saying these external factors should be primary on the system but we have to take them into account for this game otherwise the system will be just as useless imo
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I agree completely it's one reason I think it's a waste of time to put this kind of scoreing system in this kind of game. I would prefer a jutsu that lets you... sence... the skill of an opponent essentially giving you a win/ lose record and the number of skills they have learned something like 100/115/27.
Then display character age/(or hours played)
With this info you can get an idea not only of the style of play but the skill of that style.
For instance the above example abviusly has nearly a 50% win rate. And is moderately skilled- there posabley a supporting character but But if the time is low hours Then there likely
More on the combat side
However
Some one with a score of 50/75/50
Would more then likely be a support type character
But if they have long hours it could mean they were focusing on training before becoming more involved with combat.
It give you just enough info to deside if you want to ingage them with out giving away there actual abuility at the game.
this is just one way... there are others too but ELO I think should be readdress. I know it's one of the things that is carved in stone with the devs I just think it's a mistake.
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Meh I don't think it's a mistake as long as it is properly tweaked and tested. I'm sure Vreg will spend some time with this so I'm not too concerned.
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The obvious answer would be to interpret the game as a 1v1 using the average ELO of each member in a team. When one team is defeated, each player gets the same increase based on the relative ranks of each teams average. Everyone would get the same increase so nobody is gimped. This would only work for simple situations (3v3, 2v2, 1v1), which is something that would rarely happen in game.
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But that's the problem .....the set of circumstances that you have just described might be the majority of the incounters but there are .... rouge players..... so the system needs to be adaptive to any kind of battle.
From 1v1 to village scale battle.
And that's something ELO was not designed to do.
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Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting taking that out. Only change ELO rank for official combat in an arena or for rouge ninja something like the Coliseum where there are no other variables than the players themselves. There is no system currently in existence that will be able to rank players in an open world based on their random interactions with other players in that world.
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Are you saying you want all fighting regulated??? Because I don't think that idea will be widely expected.
And there is no system like that because in a open world Mmorpg there are too many variables that would impact the outcome of a battle.
There are other ways to monitor a players skill at the game other then ELO. Trying to force ELO on a game that it can't handle is a mistake. Not only will it not work it will just waist time.
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I'm just saying that it's the only way ELO could be implemented into the game.
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Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting taking that out. Only change ELO rank for official combat in an arena or for rouge ninja something like the Coliseum where there are no other variables than the players themselves. There is no system currently in existence that will be able to rank players in an open world based on their random interactions with other players in that world.
I like Charlie's idea. I think you misread it Ninja, he isn't saying that all fights should be 1v1 and regulated, he's only saying that those fights will be the only ones that count towards your ELO.
Yes, it will mean that some powerful players who don't spar won't have an ELO reflective of their skill, but that is their choice and can even be used as a tactic.
Yes, it's true that 1v1 battles vary greatly from 2v1 or 3v5 but I think that's also part of the fun.
It also doesn't cover support ninja, but in all truthfullness, maybe they should be an unknown quantity. And nothing's particularly stopping them from learning offensive jutsu simultaneously.
Ideally, there shouldn't be any method of looking at a player and instantly judging his ability. Part of the fun is fighting someone and having no idea how good they are. It will make every single battle tense, as you have no idea if you're fighting a Genin or a masquerading Sage.
And besides, the names of the very best will spread anyway.
P.S. Just another reason that information will be a vital, constant and thriving source of money and interest.
*self promoting cough at mods*
Oh look...
https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php?topic=498.msg35206#msg35206
I agree completely it's one reason I think it's a waste of time to put this kind of scoreing system in this kind of game. I would prefer a jutsu that lets you... sence... the skill of an opponent essentially giving you a win/ lose record and the number of skills they have learned something like 100/115/27.
Then display character age/(or hours played)
With this info you can get an idea not only of the style of play but the skill of that style.
For instance the above example abviusly has nearly a 50% win rate. And is moderately skilled- there posabley a supporting character but But if the time is low hours Then there likely
More on the combat side
However
Some one with a score of 50/75/50
Would more then likely be a support type character
But if they have long hours it could mean they were focusing on training before becoming more involved with combat.
It give you just enough info to deside if you want to ingage them with out giving away there actual abuility at the game.
this is just one way... there are others too but ELO I think should be readdress. I know it's one of the things that is carved in stone with the devs I just think it's a mistake.
The jutsu you suggested sounds good, but also raises some questions. What exactly constitutes as a win? Someone could give up a fight without being defeated in a death zone. And what if you kill 4 people then end up dying? Is that a loss? Or 4 wins and a loss?
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@Manuster
Any fight you walk away from is a win in a game like this. If you end up in the hospital it's a loss. If damage is received or dished out the encounter is logged. With this view it doesn't matter how many attackers there are or how many you have with you. A tactical retreat will still take skill and therefore should count as a win. The missions and benefits of looting will be the incentives to fight.
There's no reason to complicate the process by trying to force somthing that won't work for every situation.
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The Style , i agree with your plan ! YESSS
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@Manuster
Any fight you walk away from is a win in a game like this. If you end up in the hospital it's a loss. If damage is received or dished out the encounter is logged. With this view it doesn't matter how many attackers there are or how many you have with you. A tactical retreat will still take skill and therefore should count as a win. The missions and benefits of looting will be the incentives to fight.
There's no reason to complicate the process by trying to force somthing that won't work for every situation.
Okay that seems fine, but couldn't someone hit the Number 1 player, leg it and get a fair amount of ELO?
I'd be fine with your description, if the ENTIRE game was a death zone, but it's not, I do feel as though a bit of finality is required, at least in the safe areas. You could technically just run from fights and because your opponents are high enough, your ELO is above average.
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Exactly why this can't work with ELO. ELO is not designed to monitor a game like this. It will never provide an accurate number for a players skill at the game. There are too many ways to cheet the numbers. Keeping track of the number of battles and there outcome is easy. Let the players make there own assessment of that information. Don't try to force a number system on them that won't be accurate. It's just a wast of time.