Shinobi Life Online
Shinobi Life Online Category => Shinobi Life Online Questions => Topic started by: Orcellie on March 28, 2017, 03:22:05
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Hello, I'm not to sure how MMORPGs work. I've only ever played a little BaS. But from what I've read so far, there's going to be a lot of player freedom in this game. Would a game with player run economies actually work? It sounds to good to be true. Everywhere I've looked, people say that the reason most games don't have a lot of player freedom is because it doesn't work. The only place I've seen it work is Log Horizon. Players can be trolls, not very bright, et cetera and totally screw up the economy and/or the world. Am I right to think that it could fail?
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I've been told that the final release will include very few NPCs, so there will most likely be a group of players to keep the economy in check. You're definitely right to think that the economy could fail which is why I'm sure they would pick players mature enough to make the right decisions.
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Ofcourse it can work.
Sandbox mmo,s can prove this.
Im not sure though,if it will really work out here.
If the right people are in charge,it can work.
The difference here is,compared to the sandbox mmo,s that i played before,that most people seem to be kinda young.
Thats more or less the only reason why im a bit worried.
For now i just hope for the best and expect the worst.
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It works for black desert online and eve online so why wouldn't it work for slo? As long as people aren't retards then it could work.
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Hello, I'm not to sure how MMORPGs work. I've only ever played a little BaS. But from what I've read so far, there's going to be a lot of player freedom in this game. Would a game with player run economies actually work? It sounds to good to be true. Everywhere I've looked, people say that the reason most games don't have a lot of player freedom is because it doesn't work. The only place I've seen it work is Log Horizon. Players can be trolls, not very bright, et cetera and totally screw up the economy and/or the world. Am I right to think that it could fail?
There are games that work, Ex: Age of Wulin, ArchAge
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With the majority of the burden being put on the players, it'll work; Yes, you'll still have assholes, but those come with every game and are practically NPCs themselves, if you think about it >_) (in some cases, quite literally...). When players are in control of most of the high-tier positions, it makes it somewhat more difficult for jerks to have their way all of the time -- especially if they go against the "Not in my backyard" rule and end up trying to screw their own allies...that usually doesn't end well for them. Additionally, having trade be localized instead of centralized (I.E. Player-Merchants having to trade physically instead of through a World-Market or other All-Connecting-Broker) further reduces the chances that anyone can *really* monopolize markets -- why buy from one merchant when you can get it cheaper and at better quality from another, especially if that second merchant sells from a neutral, non-player-run village (Ocean, I believe...?).
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here is how to have a stable economy run by players.
Local markets (player excessable)
Globe markets ( Kaga and elder excess only)
Players search, build, and sell to any players and villages.
This gives villages the resources they need to defend themselves and generate profits through traid with other villages.
The local markets will very extremely and often.
Prices of items and resources will fluctuate.
However villages can take advantage of this to make money. They will also receive money for server sponsored missions they expect( I would assume that the kaga could deside to denie a mission if it conflicts with a treaty or some other reason)
The village then can pay its ninja for missions.
The players use this money to buy items they need from the local market and also try and make money in the fluctuation of the local market. The redundancy in methods of earning money and the supplemental survey sponcered income insure that the market won't crash.
And I would suggest that most of the survey sponcerd missions be high risk implying many ninja posabley even staring a war with another village. This high risk missions would make the people want to have smart traiders in power and if wars brake out to often the leadership could be replaced.
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Local markets are definatly needed.
It would also be a great idea to spread different kind of ressources around the world,ar at least,make them very rare in one part of the world,and very common in another.
This will motivate traders even more,and a villages would have to send out shinobi to help deliver goods to another village,so they arent stolen on the way there.
Not a fan of,,click here and the item you want to buy magically appears in your inventory''.
They should have to be transported from village to village,this gives bandits something to do,but also fellow shinobi,who can defend you on the way to the village.
Could also be a nice way for mercenarys to make money,if its too risky for everyone else.
Roads could be blocked and gates could be closed,because of a war for example,and this would have a direct impact on the economy.
Its also more fun to actually get to know the merchants,instead of simply going to a auction house,like in many other mmo,s.
Even if its,,just''a local auction house.
It keeps the game more social,since you will get to know the people you trade with.
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No I agree... but I have Seen mail boxes in mats twitch streams. Click and buy for local market s can be automated using item drops in the mail. No reason to wait. The global traid would require missions for delivery to other villages. When this traid occurs a mission is created. This also makes the price of the traid fluctuate based on village relations.
If your training with an ally you could send a genin on this mission lowering the cost of the traid.
If your selling to a rouge organization a chunin or better would likely be sent.
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If your training with an ally you could send a genin on this mission lowering the cost of the traid.
If your selling to a rouge organization a chunin or better would likely be sent.
Im not sure i understood that part,please explain it again.
,,Click and buy for local market s can be automated using item drops in the mail. No reason to wait.''
I think that there is a reason,and thats called socializing.
Trading with another player who roleplays as a merchant too,is more enjoyable than getting your item automatically from a mailbox,and it would look a bit more realistic too while keeping the village alive.
In mortal online,people used to position themself near a bank and yell to other players,telling them about ther weapons or armors,getting in a conversation with them,talk about the price or even make unique items according to the customers preference.
Thats a better experience than just clicking on a mailbox.
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Global traid will be mostly resorses and posabley some items. Resorses should be reagen related. so to get the resources players need to "craft" items, traid with other villages will be needed.
However if your village has a treaty with another village the danger to the curriers are substantially less then if your in conflict with a village or rouge organization that is buying from you.
This means that genin can be sent to ally's lowering the cost of the transaction.(units of traid)
Chunin or higher would be dispatch to places with more dangerous conflicts but these people will still need the resources of your land.
As for the interaction between players that have things you want to buy. how do you perpose to find someone with the items for sale.
Do they post the item in the market and then wait some place for you to find them... because that sound boring as hell.
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But even if your village has a friendly relation to the village it wants to trade with....other villages may attack a courier or a group of bandits might.
The risk is still there.
And about player interaction....thats kinda simple.
You can write about your wares on the forum and meet up with people who are interested.
Or you simply ask people if they need something,or you open your own little market in the village.
You dont have to stand there the whole day,but you can check by every few hours or ask in the chat if someone is interested.
Weapons and other items dont have to be available 24/7.
The kage could choose to open a storage for a emergency,when weapons and armor are really needed but no merchants are online(i organized something similiar in another game,it can work).
Basic items could be sold by NPC,s and the kage could decide how many of those NPC,s are in the village and what items they can sell(he could only select a few different items though,and all of them would be weak).
Im sure we will have a few,,full blood merchants''who are only interested in trading.
And should this fail,we could still think about a auction house.
I just think,if it can be avoided,it should.
The more player interaction,the better.
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The real question is, what are some specific examples of what would be in the economy?
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Global traid will be mostly resorses and posabley some items. Resorses should be reagen related. so to get the resources players need to "craft" items, traid with other villages will be needed.
However if your village has a treaty with another village the danger to the curriers are substantially less then if your in conflict with a village or rouge organization that is buying from you.
This means that genin can be sent to ally's lowering the cost of the transaction.(units of traid)
Chunin or higher would be dispatch to places with more dangerous conflicts but these people will still need the resources of your land.
As for the interaction between players that have things you want to buy. how do you perpose to find someone with the items for sale.
Do they post the item in the market and then wait some place for you to find them... because that sound boring as hell.
Great idea, I think that every village should have certain materials that only grow on their land. That would cause more wars, robberies, trades & alliances.
The mailbox idea can be used to send messages, items & currency to other players just like other mmos.
As for the market idea we can have a cash item that allows players to setup a paid merchant or they can sell the items by setting up their own store but need to remain ingame. Maplestory has a similar mechanic like that & it works, people can just go afk while selling their items.
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Maybe there is a compromise here.
Maybe a local black market could be auction style with mail delivery. Or players can sell to village sponsored store fronts run by players.
So players like @Mars can run his Romeo shop.
Restaurants
Weapons
Markets- selling resources:
Toxic shop- poison ingredients
Food markets
And so on.
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Looks like a job for the police force, items mailed from different villages can be stamped
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Yes but I Agee that player delivery is a good way to keep missions running. It would be nice to have missions that are not designed to be combate oriented.
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A compromise is a good idea to make both sides happy but in this case,i dont see why a auction house has to be in the game if it works without them too.
The game will be a sandbox with not so many npc,s.
The player interaction will be very important so i dont see why a local black market should fit in.
A local black market can work if people decide to run it manually,and send out the items they are selling by themself,no need to make it automatic.
That would be a excuse for people to be lazy or not get into a conversation with the traders.
The compromise,is that there even is such a thing like a mailbox(there is no one who delivers letters but.....).
I can see there is a reason for that and everything.
But a auction house should only be added,if its needed.
We could consider it,but we should wait first,and see if the trading system works fine without it or not.
Another compromise would be,that players can set up a shop while going afk,like matt wrote.
People would still have to get close to the shop and they will only see the items that this 1 shop has to offer.
They might also be able to get into a conversation if the other player isnt afk.
But a auction house would make people lazy and less social.
Thats why i think it shouldnt be in the game,unless its needed because merchants are never there or because there are not many people who are interested in trading.
PS:I really like the idea of the police force.
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I would like to think people would be willing to make the economic interest of the game a priority in there game play... but I just don't think they will be willing to do it. Some people might want to play the game for this reason only but I doubt the majority will.
Remember this is a game not a substitution for real life. There is plenty options for social interaction in missions and diplomatic events.
If social interaction is the only objection to a auction type market then I would say a stable economy is more important.
Just my opinion.
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The majority isnt even needed.
Players who focus on trading,are a minority in mmo,s.
You dont need a lot of merchants,too many of them wouldnt be realistic,and it wouldnt be good for the merchants aswell,because then you would have more merchants than customers.
Im aware that this isnt RL.
But the game aims to be realistic(as much as that is possible in a naruto inspired world)and thats why a auction house shouldnt exist.
There are other ways to socialize,yes.
But why not create even more ways of doing that?
It also doesnt go along well with the rest of the game.
Combat will be hard,wars will be meaningful,travelling alone is risky and can get you killed(and death in SLO is harsh).....and then,you have a auction house where you can easily sell your stuff without doing anything?
If social interaction is the only objection to a auction type market then I would say a stable economy is more important.
Why not have both?
A auction house is not needed to achieve this.
A auction house is only needed if there is no other way,and i have yet to be convienced,that there really IS no other way.
One of my friends for example,is totally interested in trading and he avoids combat when possible.
There are more people like that.
Yes,they are a minority,but thats totally fine,traders are supposed to be a minority.
There is also just 1 kage per village.
If there is no auction house,people have to make contact with each other and actually get to know the other members of the village.
Also,with matts idea,trading wouldnt be too difficult anyway.
Even people who are not into trading that much,can simply open up their little market stand while they are going AFK.
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Idk I feel like auction houses take all the fun away from trading/marketing. I rather go around and see what people have to offer rather then seeing all the items in the game and buying whatever i want for the lowest price. People play mmos just because of the market, its another way to play the game.
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Idk I feel like auction houses take all the fun away from trading/marketing. I rather go around and see what people have to offer rather then seeing all the items in the game and buying whatever i want for the lowest price. People play mmos just because of the market, its another way to play the game.
It should be like eve online (stations would be villages). Basically completely player run and stations would ofc be villages.