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Author Topic: Kenjutsu suggestion  (Read 3648 times)

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Offline The Cliche Cat

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Kenjutsu suggestion
« on: August 30, 2018, 11:17:30 »
Instead of having a hack and slash play style with kenjutsu it should be something similar to Shadows Die Twice. In this game the hit boxes are small and precise and lining up hits & parries is difficult, which makes dodging and moving constantly a big part of the combat. It takes A LOT of skill to actual get good at and requires actual practice to get a decent grip on it. When you do get good at it tho it's extremely rewarding and satisfying.


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Offline NinjaMirage

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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 14:27:13 »
This kind of combat works against AI. But would be clunky against other people. And at most you only ever take on 2-3 AI opponents with no support from a squad! There’s very little room for team play in this type of combat system.
If you were a kenjutsu user that had to play this way in SLO by yourself, you would be slaughtered by ranged ninjutsu and Defense ninjutsu.
At most I think a critical damage box should be available but only targetable under certain conditions.
I’m not saying that kenjutsu should be hack and slash!!  Far from it!! But kenjutsu attacks should have stun and pushback end hits to there combos. Combined with a realistic chakra and stamina system, and jutsu like substation and body flicker/teleportation. Kenjutsu could be competitive.



Offline The Cliche Cat

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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 15:20:31 »
This kind of combat works against AI. But would be clunky against other people. And at most you only ever take on 2-3 AI opponents with no support from a squad! There’s very little room for team play in this type of combat system.
If you were a kenjutsu user that had to play this way in SLO by yourself, you would be slaughtered by ranged ninjutsu and Defense ninjutsu.
At most I think a critical damage box should be available but only targetable under certain conditions.
I’m not saying that kenjutsu should be hack and slash!!  Far from it!! But kenjutsu attacks should have stun and pushback end hits to there combos. Combined with a realistic chakra and stamina system, and jutsu like substation and body flicker/teleportation. Kenjutsu could be competitive.

The game that I showed is made by the people who made Dark Souls so the combat system is similar to Dark Souls. And Dark Souls does have PvP
https://youtu.be/Vfm_Qcs9TF8?t=2m23s



I'm not saying that the Kenjutsu needs to be 100% like this but having it be similar in the sense that landing a strike and parries being not just as easy as it is in Skyrim where you spam left click until your enemy is dead. This requires way more skill and practice and I think it would translate well into SLO. A person who is skilled enough could definitely win a 1 v 3 with this type of fighting style.  People who will use swords in SLO will use jutsus too, and when they're in close combat the skilled kenjutsu user will have the definite advantage. If a long range ninjutsu user gets too close to someone who is proficient in kenjutsu all they can do is hope that they dodge their attackers strikes. Whereas a close combat type person can use a number of ways to dodge long range jutsus. Defensive ninjutsu, dodging, terrain/cover, perhaps blocking with your sword if that becomes a thing. I don't think that in this system kenjutsu users would be at such a disadvantage that they wouldn't be able to win a 1v2 or kill a long range ninjutsu user. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 15:24:42 by The Cliche Cat »
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Offline Dragon6624

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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 00:27:11 »
     The hitboxes are already relatively small and difficult to hit, especially when both parties get in close and are determined (for some reason) to not be shanked - and given that Kenjutsu will be largely Combo-based, I think it's safe to assume that it won't be lacking in terms of tactical complexity. At most, freedom of movement should be incentivized further when making your attacks, as the current demo shows that being too flashy/anime in execution will easily leave you wide open to counters.

     The bigger problem lies in how it'll end up fitting into the overall Tempo of combat, making it too slow or too fast could leave it staggeringly far ahead or behind the competition, and this is compounded by the fact that...unfortunately, Kenjutsu is a bit of a one-trick-pony in a game like this; You either get in close and overwhelm your opponent with pressure, or you die - simple as that. It's going to be very difficult balancing the damage, timing and distance with such limited design space, and I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to go strictly Kenjutsu. More than likely, it'll end up being used as an opener or finisher, tying into Jutsus rather than directly opposing them; If we looked at it more as a sidearm than a primary method of combat, it could probably find a nice little niche - hell, even more so if it was designed to take less resources than other Jutsu, thereby ensuring its place as a reliable last-resort.

     This could even take on a sort of Magikarp-like role, being weaker than most in the beginning, but transforming into a very powerful high-end style if supported with ample physical training and chakra control for the appropriate levels of speed and damage/jutsu-disruption - I think it ending up as the Gyarados of SLO could be pretty cool.
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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 20:06:51 »
     The hitboxes are already relatively small and difficult to hit, especially when both parties get in close and are determined (for some reason) to not be shanked - and given that Kenjutsu will be largely Combo-based, I think it's safe to assume that it won't be lacking in terms of tactical complexity. At most, freedom of movement should be incentivized further when making your attacks, as the current demo shows that being too flashy/anime in execution will easily leave you wide open to counters.

     The bigger problem lies in how it'll end up fitting into the overall Tempo of combat, making it too slow or too fast could leave it staggeringly far ahead or behind the competition, and this is compounded by the fact that...unfortunately, Kenjutsu is a bit of a one-trick-pony in a game like this; You either get in close and overwhelm your opponent with pressure, or you die - simple as that. It's going to be very difficult balancing the damage, timing and distance with such limited design space, and I highly doubt anyone is going to be able to go strictly Kenjutsu. More than likely, it'll end up being used as an opener or finisher, tying into Jutsus rather than directly opposing them; If we looked at it more as a sidearm than a primary method of combat, it could probably find a nice little niche - hell, even more so if it was designed to take less resources than other Jutsu, thereby ensuring its place as a reliable last-resort.

     This could even take on a sort of Magikarp-like role, being weaker than most in the beginning, but transforming into a very powerful high-end style if supported with ample physical training and chakra control for the appropriate levels of speed and damage/jutsu-disruption - I think it ending up as the Gyarados of SLO could be pretty cool.
yes kenjutsu=sword combat is by definition a one trick pony but as a bigger catagory of bukiujutsu it is a skill tree within its self. However for it to be a viable combat system your long and short range weapons would by  necessity require at least some  proficiency in fuinjutsu summoning and sealing. Trap tags, chain and kuni, for long range  stun/damage,
Mid range weapons like bo staff/spear, and long sword could have thrust and mid range linear and aoe effects, and katana and short sword for close range. But the change from one to the other would need to be seamless, or have knock down, push back or stun effects long enough for the change to happen.

however i think Weapons could be extreamly strong where 2 or 3 good hits form a long sword or somthing might kill you. but movement spead and Jutsu usage should be extreamly limited
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 13:15:23 by NinjaMirage »



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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 18:44:10 »
yes kenjutsu=sword combat is by definition a one trick pony but as a bigger catagory of bukiujutsu it is a skill tree within its self. However for it to be a viable combat system your long and short range weapons would by  necessity require at least some  proficiency in fuinjutsu summoning and sealing. Trap tags, chain and kuni, for long range  stun/damage,
Mid range weapons like bo staff/spear, and long sword could have thrust and mid range linear and aoe effects, and katana and short sword for close range. But the change from one to the other would need to be seamless, or have knock down, push back or stun effects long enough for the change to happen.

however i think Weapons could be extreamly strong where 2 or 3 good hits form a long sword or somthing might kill you. but movement spead and Jutsu usage should be extreamly limited

     Hmm...hadn't thought about incorporating it with Fuinjutsu to maximize your options - that could be a very interesting style of combat, having a sort of "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" approach to melees with weaponry; Using that combination, you could definitely increase the variety of situations where Bukijutsu (much better terminology there) would come in handy.

     Again though, I don't think it could ever be more than an opener or finisher for other moves...not unless it were being paired with some exceptionally high-end stats (agility, speed, possibly your ability to disrupt others' chakra on contact through heavy chakra control, but I doubt that'd occur in high-tier fights - pressuring through speed and environmental control would be more applicable). It's all about the relativity of success when it comes to gameplay - if I make Bukijutsu dangerous and versatile enough on its own to properly combat other jutsu types (with an exception for something like Genjutsu), why wouldn't people all just pump out Bukijutsu/Fuinjutsu specialists? If I incorporate armor strong enough to hinder the weaponry of Bukijutsu, why train in that when I can just use other jutsu to bypass this new hurdle?

     Because it seems to sit on such extreme ends of the spectrum, I can't ever see it as being much else other than secondary in a game that wants to emphasize the more fantastical jutsu it has to offer.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 18:53:22 by Dragon6624 »
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Re: Kenjutsu suggestion
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 22:40:11 »
Who said you can’t master every weapon? You can balance it by making jutsu and weapons amune to 1 spacific tree making full reliance on any one tree a gamble.

Can you deal with 95% of what ever comes your way if you focus only on bukijutsu! Sure!!
But you run the risk of running in to that 5%of people like gaura in the anime that are effectively amune to it.

This works the other way as well with equipment like samahada sharkskin.

Tajiutsu that observe chakra and telapotatuon jutsu to keep players in close combat.

Genjutsu that sap a character’s chakra and stun there movement

These effects help balance the game. And if you choose to specialize in something you’ll have to come up with a strategy to deal with the problematic effects to your type.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 22:42:24 by NinjaMirage »



 

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